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[Celtic_Fan7]

Originally Posted by NAC-BREDA

Thanks mate.....Scotland really did make us worry after the first match.
Goodluck in the future.

Thanks NAC-Breda, we'll need all the luck we can get.

Again, best of luck in Portugal

[Celtic_Fan7]

Originally Posted by Excelsior

Thank you Celtic_Fan7

No Problem

I was really surprised by our national team. Advocaat woke finally up (looking to the starting 11) and the players played with real passion, just the same thing you beat us with last Saturday. It has specially to do with the younger team, it was now a real team wich played with passion and with that you can't beat us, that's proved yesterday. Specially Wesley Sneijder was awesome and that kid is just 18!!!

Yes, the Dutch players were very passionate, they wanted to win badly for themselves & their country. They were just too hungry & too good for our team, we got outclassed.

Your fans also backed your team well last night, don't you think??? A very colourful bunch aswell :USA_Blue

Sneijder in particular looks an awesome prospect. He scored a great goal, though he should have been denied the space he got but he struck the ball perfectly, great goal!!

From then on, it was pretty much all Holland, we never stood a chance!!!

[Celtic_Fan7]

Originally Posted by CelticBhoy

Not sure that we should be depressed about it, we are at our true level, the only way is up. We just need the right people making the correct decisions to improve the current setup. Do the dutch have more kids interested in football than Scotland, even allowing for the population ? or do they just train them better ?

Our media/tabloids gave us hope, & sometimes i can't help but listen to the so-called experts, & they seemed very confident we could win, so i became very confident. When your team then takes a pasting, regardless of the fact we knew they were superior, it still hurts.

But your right, we have found our level. I just don't see that level changing to much in the next 5 years to be completely honest.

And yes, i believe the Dutch are trained better. Our kids still play percentage football, the Dutch kids play proper passing football from a young age, our youngsters hoof the ball up the park, if there's no available pass.

Total football VS Hoofing football, doesn't really compare does it???

[JC_The_Atheist]

Those of you who are regs in here know my views on Scottish Football. Third world stuff. And I note that someone else has said what I have preached all along. There are too many foreigners in Scotland footy for the national team to get anywhere. They only got that far on pride and sheers guts. Until Celtic and Rangers revert to home grown talent - and it is there - then scottish football is on the way down.

On the other side of the coin, I also believe that this will happen in England sooner or later. The kids are not coming through, except at United.

__________________

i watch Scottish football every weekend down through all the divisions and it has **** all to do with foreigners. Its the facilities or the lack of them. Good players will come through regardless because its always in the clubs best interests to bring through homegrown talent,saves them having to spend large transfer fees and the youngster who goes through the ranks at the club will always have more loyalty to the club than the purchasing of a player from another club mainly due to them being brought up at a club. Scotland failings are down to a lack of good facilities and training programs. English football isn't going to go down the route of Scotland for a start Scotland is a small nation of 5 million people while England is far higher populated. Top English clubs have their own training complexes and top quality youth academies. You'll probably find their is no more foreigners in Scotland in proportion than in any other country,of course the old firms have many foreigners but thats because theirs a lack of Scottish quality and its not clubs responsibilty to fuel the National side.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by Celtic_Fan7

Our media/tabloids gave us hope, & sometimes i can't help but listen to the so-called experts, & they seemed very confident we could win, so i became very confident.

Never listen to experts!! Listen to your heart. There was so much said by Scottish players, fans and press after the first game, it was bound to inflame the Dutch players. If I had of been a betting man, I would have put a months wages on Holland winning the second leg.

[NewYorkCelticBhoy]

Originally Posted by JC_The_Atheist

Good players will come through regardless because its always in the clubs best interests to bring through homegrown talent,saves them having to spend large transfer fees and the youngster who goes through the ranks at the club will always have more loyalty to the club than the purchasing of a player from another club mainly due to them being brought up at a club. Scotland failings are down to a lack of good facilities and training programs.

Agreed. And don't forget -- bigger local populations mean bigger support for more clubs, means more cash for more investment.

I trust that JC and Shed boy will agree that it's a shame that the Euro 2008 bid fell through, given the millions of pounds the Scottish Executive were preparing to invest in Aberdeen and Dundee.

Originally Posted by JC_The_Atheist

the old firms have many foreigners but thats because theirs a lack of Scottish quality and its not clubs responsibilty to fuel the National side.

Both sides of the OF do have a bad track record of buying promising Scottish talent from other clubs and then leaving them to stagnate on the sidelines (of course they do that to promising foreigners too).

R**gers have set a good example in their investment in Murray Park but it will take time for the fruit of that investment to show.

[Shed Boy]

Firstly, i think we have nothing to be ashamed of. The players went into the ArenA under so much pressure and were just outplayed by a team that had much more to prove than ourselves. We have came leaps and bounds since that 2-2 draw with the Faroes. Berti always said that his aim was to lead Scotland to the 2006 world cup and that anything before that would be a bonus. Well I beleive he is going to fufilil his word and he is the one to lead the Scottish team.

JC you say we should have a Scottish manager managing the team, this is all very well in theory but who is going to take the job. Obviously Ferguson would be top choice but could you seriously see him taking the job. We have Berti so we should stick with him and support him and the team.

And Beckham character if you do not have anything constructive to say please refrain from saying anything. What has the English rugby team got to do with any of this? Nothing. If we were to be petty like this someone could have thrown in a wee comment about the English cricket team.

And everyone else please don't take the bait from this pondlife, he is only here to try and annoy us, lets not stoop to his level.

[Red Devil]

Originally Posted by Shed Boy

Firstly, i think we have nothing to be ashamed of.

Nobody can accuse Scotland of that my friend.

[JC_The_Atheist]

JC you say we should have a Scottish manager managing the team, this is all very well in theory but who is going to take the job. Obviously Ferguson would be top choice but could you seriously see him taking the job. We have Berti so we should stick with him and support him and the team.

Listen i dont care if its you that takes over instead of Berti at least your Scottish. If the players have to be Nationals of the country then so should the managers and coaches. I've not got anything against Berti as i have prefered him to Craig Brown but i just dont think its right having foreign managers managing international sides and that includes Sven managing England. I just want to stop all this crap in football with Scottish grandparents, its not right. People may praise the Republic of Ireland in recent years but barely anyone in their side has been Irish,for godsake their top scorer ever Tony Cascarino never even had the Irish blood he claimed to have. If you start letting non nationals playing for international sides then it just defeats the purpose of international football. I think it should only be your place of birth and your parents Nationality that determines what international side you can play for.

Mauro Camoranesi should not be playing for Italy.

[Azz]

Originally Posted by JC_The_Atheist

Listen i dont care if its you that takes over instead of Berti at least your Scottish. If the players have to be Nationals of the country then so should the managers and coaches. I've not got anything against Berti as i have prefered him to Craig Brown but i just dont think its right having foreign managers managing international sides and that includes Sven managing England. I just want to stop all this crap in football with Scottish grandparents, its not right. People may praise the Republic of Ireland in recent years but barely anyone in their side has been Irish,for godsake their top scorer ever Tony Cascarino never even had the Irish blood he claimed to have. If you start letting non nationals playing for international sides then it just defeats the purpose of international football. I think it should only be your place of birth and your parents Nationality that determines what international side you can play for.

Mauro Camoranesi should not be playing for Italy.

I don't agree with any of this. The question of Nationality should be down to the individual if they can prove they have the blood link (I guess grandparent is far back enough though I wouldn't object to further) and/or they want to play for that country. I mean what would you do with a refuge or immigrant who was born abroad but came to a country as a child? If they had a desire to play for Scotland or whoever why not. What we don't want is people playing under a flag of convenience.
Coaching is another matter. Yes it would be great to have a Scottish manager, but in Britain the feeling is a manager or coach should prove himself for years in the leagues. That isn't so abroad where player often become national managers on retirement, hopefully Mark Hughes has proved this can be done for us too. Craig Brown and Roxburgh were rare examples of a Scottish manager without a top class pedigree, but we aren't going to attract SAF so there is no real other Scottish choice on that basis. So why not Berti?

[Red Devil]

I think a player should be born in the country he plays for unless down to parental level only. Look at Eire. You only had to prove you had two grandparents to play for them. AND by his own admittance, Tony Cascarino conned his way into the Eire setup by telling lies to the Irish FA about his great grandparents or something. I have more right to play for Eire than him.

[Weebully]

The ruling was only one grandparent, and I don't see whats wrong with that? Cascarino was adopted, which was why he wasn't eligiable for Ireland (not even sure he knew when first capped).
My granny was born in Belfast and moved to Glasgow as a girl, I've recently been on to the IFA about playing for Northern Ireland, I aint gonna play for Scotland, so why not play for somebody else if they want me and I can. Look at all these Reggae Boyz, they wouldn't have gone to Jamaica if they didn't have the chance to play in World Cups.

[NewYorkCelticBhoy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that in the first internationals there was no nationality requirement at all. They added it later (a good thing in my opinion) but it's not set in stone.

(Before you immediately start slagging me off, if I weren't logging on at work I would take the time to do the research to verify)

[JC_The_Atheist]

I don't agree with any of this. The question of Nationality should be down to the individual if they can prove they have the blood link (I guess grandparent is far back enough though I wouldn't object to further) and/or they want to play for that country. I mean what would you do with a refuge or immigrant who was born abroad but came to a country as a child? If they had a desire to play for Scotland or whoever why not. What we don't want is people playing under a flag of convenience.
Coaching is another matter. Yes it would be great to have a Scottish manager, but in Britain the feeling is a manager or coach should prove himself for years in the leagues. That isn't so abroad where player often become national managers on retirement, hopefully Mark Hughes has proved this can be done for us too. Craig Brown and Roxburgh were rare examples of a Scottish manager without a top class pedigree, but we aren't going to attract SAF so there is no real other Scottish choice on that basis. So why not Berti?

The Nationality should not be down to the individual its about what you are. Don Hutchison is not Scottish he's English,if you asked the man what he is he'd say he is English therefore the man should not wear the Scottish jersey. It makes a fool of the whole system when someone like Hutchison who never had any chance of playing for England should wear the Scottish jersey to expand his own career. Going back even as far as the grandparents is ridiculous,many times grandparents who you never even known. Your nationality is what you are and being Scottish i obviously have two national identities,Scottish first British second but nationality is what you are not just a choice to make to further your footballing career. As for the immigrant coming over he can get a British citizenship therefore making him British,that is obviously a bad case for Britain because seeing as we have British Citizenship it would probably be a logical step to have a British team(i dont want that and not suggesting it as an option.) Mauro Camoranesi is Argentinian,he was born and bred there and both his parents are Argentinian but because one of his grandparents is Italian he is allowed to play for the Italian team,why? He knows he is going to be a regular in the Italian side as they have a shortage of wide midfielders and its obviously more convenient for him because he plays for Juventus and the National boss can watch him more closely. You can have the desire to play for Scotland or not,you can pray to the Almighty lord but it dont make you Scottish. I want it changed to go only as far as your parents. Why not Berti,because he's German and not Scottish. Give the job to my Gran at least she's Scottish.

[Weebully]

I can't speak for Don Hutchison, but I'd have thought a lot of those who have played for Scotland down the years have done so with pride for their country where ever they were born. Look at somebody like Stuart McCall, as Yorkshire as flat caps and whippets before he came to Ibrox (and now he's left by the sound of him), but you can't say he wasn't a proud and passsionate Scot.