CL Final FT: Bayern 1 - 1 Chelsea* (3-4) - Page 15 - soccer24-7.com Forums

jordankhamra · May 20 2012, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shad

Yea, I was just reading in the Süddeutsche Zeitung that the reason why Neuer took a penalty was because Heynckes had trouble finding 5 penalty-takers! The players were too scared to step up. Unbelievable.

Well, that says something about these players. If you don't take a PK then you are not a leader ( in the classic definition or in Lahm and bastian's definition). Lahm and Bastian want to be leaders but they don't have it in them. Not having leaders at Bayern or the NT hurts us. Germany or Bayern have never won a continental championship without having multiple leaders. Even average German teams have overachieved when they had leaders.

With leadership comes confidence and confidence is needed in key moments to win a SF or a final. Right now neither Bayern or germany have any german resemblens of anything close to a leader which really sucks when you look the slew of leaders Germany has produced over the decades.

Distant Voices · May 20 2012, 11:27 PM

I don't think they are many leaders today in world football. Look at how players look today compared to yesterday. The 1982 German team is the scariest bunch of mutha****ers you will ever see. Briegel looked like a villian in a James Bond film, Kaltz, Breitner, Forster etc. Guys who grew up in tougher times. Today we have players like Ronaldo, Lahm, Gomez, Messi, Michael Owen, Beckham, who all look like faggots compared to the players of yesteryear. Surprised at Gerry mentioning Khedira. I do not see any toughness, leadership qualities in him.if he had he would be a better DM.

jordankhamra · May 20 2012, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distant Voices

I don't think they are many leaders today in world football. Look at how players look today compared to yesterday. The 1982 German team is the scariest bunch of mutha****ers you will ever see. Briegel looked like a villian in a James Bond film, Kaltz, Breitner, Forster etc. Guys who grew up in tougher times. Today we have players like Ronaldo, Lahm, Gomez, Messi, Michael Owen, Beckham, who all look like faggots compared to the players of yesteryear. Surprised at Gerry mentioning Khedira. I do not see any toughness, leadership qualities in him.if he had he would be a better DM.

We don't need to look that far. Spain has Puyol, Italy had Totti and France had Zidane. Looking at this game, Chelsea has Drogba and Lampard. I am also talking about a winning mentality, real confidence and ability to win/influence. A game Bayern's most influential players are not even German.

**TheNameOfTheG..** · May 21 2012, 10:41 AM

Funny reaction from our NT players after this game. Well, most of them were for Bayern cause of Olic and Pranjic, but Kranjcar and Modric, as Spurs players, were for Bayern cause of CL too aswell as Dinamo players who would have been seeded in 4th round of CL qualifications if Bayern had win. After the game Modrić was speachless and Kranjcar said - **** it.

jordankhamra · May 21 2012, 12:16 PM

One correction, Germany and Bayern do have a leader - Neuer. You see it in his eyes and actions and in him taking the PK when all the stars could not. Too bad he is not a field player. I see leadership qulaities in Khedira but he does not have the skill that goes along being a leader.

Lahm, Klose, Gomez, Bastian, Kroos... are respected but not feared (they look like boys). Lothar, Ruminegge, Effenberg... were respected and feared.

**TheNameOfTheG..** · May 21 2012, 12:46 PM

Neuer indeed has showed the guts.
Not sure about Khedira, he desnt talk and yeal much :S he is more like Lahm, you need to provoke his reaction.

**TheNameOfTheG..** · May 21 2012, 01:02 PM

So, according to Tages Zeitung Neuer was 5th on the list to take the penaly, but everyone were scared to take it so Neuer took the ball as 3rd (Gomes gesticualted to him it is his turn :S). Muller was angry on the players, speiclay on Tymo (Kross and Robben where nowhere close to the ball), he even pushed Tymo after yealing on him. It was a little drama over there, but also this cowerdness it's shamefull for players (who are all NT players in Germany or elswehere) and shamefull for the coach and physical preparation for the games and possible penalties. If this is true though.

Distant Voices · May 21 2012, 01:02 PM

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...y-1982-007.jpg

This team would have any modern team for breakfast

**TheNameOfTheG..** · May 21 2012, 01:05 PM

BTW Gomes is not pure quality (he aint averrage aswell), but he showed some guts. He hit both penalties, in Madrid and in Munich, which is almost impossible in BAyern lately.

jordankhamra · May 21 2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distant Voices

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...y-1982-007.jpg

This team would have any modern team for breakfast

My favorite team of all time. If you look at the players, with the exception of a couple, they all look like grown men. Compare that to the boyish faces of the last decade - Ballack, Kahn and Lehman excluded.

jordankhamra · May 21 2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNameOfTheG..

So, according to Tages Zeitung Neuer was 5th on the list to take the penaly, but everyone were scared to take it so Neuer took the ball as 3rd (Gomes gesticualted to him it is his turn :S). Muller was angry on the players, speiclay on Tymo (Kross and Robben where nowhere close to the ball), he even pushed Tymo after yealing on him. It was a little drama over there, but also this cowerdness it's shamefull for players (who are all NT players in Germany or elswehere) and shamefull for the coach and physical preparation for the games and possible penalties. If this is true though.

You know, the more I hear about what took place, the madder and more confused I get. How could this team be full of cowards? Zico missed in WC 86 and still took a PK in the shootout, Ronaldo missed a PK and still took one in the shootout. If you are a star, would you not want to control your own destiny versus hope someone else wins or lose's it for you?

Distant Voices · May 21 2012, 01:25 PM

Hoeness voiced doubts about his players' mental strength. "We have to ask ourselves why this happened," he said.

"Do we have the players who really force the issue? Do we have enough of them? I don't want to criticise the team but I saw a few things I didn't like. I'm not sure how they will respond, I don't want to make any negative or positive predictions. But I didn't see a Jens Jeremies today, a guy who bites opponents in the calf on the way on to the pitch."

jordankhamra · May 21 2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distant Voices

Hoeness voiced doubts about his players' mental strength. "We have to ask ourselves why this happened," he said.

"Do we have the players who really force the issue? Do we have enough of them? I don't want to criticise the team but I saw a few things I didn't like. I'm not sure how they will respond, I don't want to make any negative or positive predictions. But I didn't see a Jens Jeremies today, a guy who bites opponents in the calf on the way on to the pitch."

Yeah, I am sure he and Karl see this problem since they were part of the old guard. Several legends, prior to the game, said this was Bastian's time to sieze the moment. It is clear Bayern need this leadership figure even if it will negativly affect Lahm and Bastian - same holds true for the NT. While this is a solvable problem for Bayern via the transfer market, there is no solution for the NT.

**TheNameOfTheG..** · May 21 2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jordankhamra

You know, the more I hear about what took place, the madder and more confused I get. How could this team be full of cowards? Zico missed in WC 86 and still took a PK in the shootout, Ronaldo missed a PK and still took one in the shootout. If you are a star, would you not want to control your own destiny versus hope someone else wins or lose's it for you?

That's true. I wont blame the players if they lose penalties shouout (at least not so harsh), sometimes you win sometimes you dont. They won against Real (although it wasnt the best penalty display, luckily Real was even worse), but to be so scared of taking the responsiblity (if this is true), so scared that none is taking the ball so goalie has to, that's disaster for mental reputaion of any team (and we are talking about Geman team here). Take the ball and miss, that's the least you can do. Wont be the first wont be the last who missed the penalty. You can join to VIP club - Baggio, Baresi, Messi, Ronaldo, Maradona...

~~Sheva7~~ · May 21 2012, 03:39 PM

Hmm I wondered why Gomez seems to be failing in Big Matches and I came to the conclusion that.......he feels isolated in Bayern's System
I think he'd be best in a 2 striker partnership
Put him with Muller(Muller as Second Striker) upfront and you'll see what I mean
Drop the whole winger system(also a good oportunity to get rid of Robben and Ribery)
Maybe play a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-1-2(Bayern has the money to buy another CM and a Central Playmaker)

Distant Voices · May 21 2012, 03:59 PM

Do teams usually lose in penalty competitions at home in big games?
Too much pressure?

Roma 1984
Mexico 1986
Italy 1990
England 1996
Holland 2000
Bayern 2012

There must be others...

**TheNameOfTheG..** · May 21 2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distant Voices

Do teams usually lose in penalty competitions at home in big games?
Too much pressure?

Roma 1984
Mexico 1986
Italy 1990
England 1996
Holland 2000
Bayern 2012

There must be others...

Real Madrid 2012.

Distant Voices · May 21 2012, 05:18 PM

The Bayern fans were respectful towards Chelsea at the end. They stayed to watch Chelsea lift the cup.

~~Sheva7~~ · May 21 2012, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheva7

Hmm I wondered why Gomez seems to be failing in Big Matches and I came to the conclusion that.......he feels isolated in Bayern's System
I think he'd be best in a 2 striker partnership
Put him with Muller(Muller as Second Striker) upfront and you'll see what I mean
Drop the whole winger system(also a good oportunity to get rid of Robben and Ribery)
Maybe play a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-1-2(Bayern has the money to buy another CM and a Central Playmaker)

What do you guys think of this?

palmerq · May 21 2012, 05:53 PM

i think u stink

**TheNameOfTheG..** · May 21 2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Distant Voices

The Bayern fans were respectful towards Chelsea at the end. They stayed to watch Chelsea lift the cup.

Instead of going out (was drinking with a friend during the whole game), I jumped into the pyjama after Schweini's penalty and switched off the tv right after Drogba's penalty, and few minutes later friend left my appartment not being able to take me out.

**VDV** · May 21 2012, 07:41 PM

Will be reading all of this later on tonight. About the only good news is that there's 300+ pages for a match thread, though I'm expecting at least 10-15 posts racist Germany-trolling as well.

Anyways, the worst loss along with Bayern in 99. Terrible stuff.

**TheNameOfTheG..** · May 21 2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheva7

Hmm I wondered why Gomez seems to be failing in Big Matches and I came to the conclusion that.......he feels isolated in Bayern's System
I)

He wasnt isolated. He had his chances (I remember of 3 in the first half), but unfortunately he didint score. If he scored one or two he would be a hero.

~~Sheva7~~ · May 21 2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNameOfTheG..

He wasnt isolated. He had his chances (I remember of 3 in the first half), but unfortunately he didint score. If he scored one or two he would be a hero.

The problem isnt the chances.The problem was the lack of space and somebody not close to him
For some reason I think he would do better with Muller(as Second Striker) Partnering him upfront....atleast I think so
I've only watched the games vs Madrid,Napoli and Chelsea so Im judging based on those.Muller especially strikes me that he could very well play the SS role and suceed there....I mean he's clinical...and can create too...I think he would look better the closer to goal he gets....though again this is my analisis from few of the matches I've saw of Bayern in UCL this season

**TheNameOfTheG..** · May 21 2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheva7

The problem isnt the chances.The problem was the lack of space and somebody not close to him
For some reason I think he would do better with Muller(as Second Striker) Partnering him upfront....atleast I think so
I've only watched the games vs Madrid,Napoli and Chelsea so Im judging based on those.Muller especially strikes me that he could very well play the SS role and suceed there....I mean he's clinical...and can create too...I think he would look better the closer to goal he gets....though again this is my analisis from few of the matches I've saw of Bayern in UCL this season

Hm. I wouldnt complicate things. IMO the only problem about his game was he didint score. He found himself in couple of chances which is v good, but didint score which is bad. He played as same as he played the whole season, but most of the season he was scoring (a lot), lately he hasn't. Mathematics is simple for this. Drogba scored and he didint even had a chance. That was also difference in this game. However, wouldn't change this "winger formation" with best Bayern's player Ribery and Robben (although Robben's current form is far from his best) ,cause it's deadly enough even with one striker upfront (if he will score ofcourse), which leaves more players in the midle who can defend and attack and score too. Bayern does need one more v good striker though.
The thing is if you could switch any single player from BAyern to Chelsea and vice versa none would do much difference, apart if you switched Drogba for Gomez. It really would have been an easy game for BAyern on Saturday and no heavens would stop them to take its 5th CL cup.