Northumbria

[Calean]

Since some are griping about crap threads, or threads being about the same crap, I thought I would change the pace. I might be successful, and maybe not, but if there are those who still think this is crap, well, get stuffed...



Maybe Tom or others can help me out with this.

I was doing some research on Yorkshire not too long ago, and unless I was asleep that day in British History class, it says that Yorkshire is a part of Northumbria. I didn't think it was, but now have found out that it is...o.k. sorted.


Now according to some brief research, it says that Northumbria primarily was ruled by a Celtic King at some point, and after some wars became an earldom. So my questions are number one what exactly is an Earldom or what qualifies an area as one, and two, I thought all areas of Britain were consolidated under William the Conqueror in terms of feudalism, but really wasn't full firmed up until Henry the 2nd?

[Calean]

Great...apparently after some griping about thread quality, IKEA and WWE top the list of threads most discussed than a bit of history...

[mejulian]

Your level of discussion it too high for us, cal.

[bambergascoigne]

which English king had the most kids?






Johnathan King.


yep, you're over my head cal

[Bossanova]

I doubt many know the answers to your questions cal

A wikipedia search is my advice for you

[Bossanova]

Originally Posted by bambergascoigne

which English king had the most kids?






Johnathan King.


yep, you're over my head cal

the oldies are the best huh bamb?

or the young uns in jonathan kings case...

[bluemoon32]

It would help if it was about a part of the country people gave a sh1t about.............Northumbria ??? pffft

[Manic Loop]

half of my familys from northumbria.. and i dont have a ******* clue. shows how vital it is

[Tom_NUFC]

OK, I'm more of a modern historian myself, so my knowledge isn't fantastic, but being from Northumbria I know some stuff about Northumbria.

In summary, here's what happened.

During the Anglo Saxon invasions of England, the Saxons settled primarily in the south and the Angles in the north.

In the 6th century, Angles settlers established the two kingdoms of Bernicia and Deira.
Bernicia comprised of the land between the River Tweed (the present England-Scotland border) and the River Tees, so in modern terms, it is the majority of the modern English region of Northumbria (more commonly known as North East England). Deira lay directly to Bernicia's south and made up of the land between the River Tees and the River Humber, so its pretty much most of modern day Yorkshire.

The capital of Bernicia was located at Bamburgh in the county of Northumberland, about 50 miles north of Newcastle.
It is unknown where Deira's original capital was located, though it's believed to have been near the present town of Pocklington near the Humber. It later moved to Ebrauc (modern day York).

Bernicia and Deira merged in the 7th century to become the Kingdom of Northumbria after Aethelfrith of Bernicia defeated Aella of Deira in 604 AD.
the new Kingdom of Northumbria was ruled from Bamburgh.

Aethelfrith was himself killed in 616 by Raedwald of East Anglia, and Aella's son Edwin became the new Northumbrian king.

Following Edwin's death, Bernicia and Deira became semi independent of each other, with seperate kings but were linked together in what I suppose today would be regarded as a Confederation. Both Eanfrith of Bernicia and Osric of Deira were killed in the invasion of Northumbria under Cadwallon, King of the Welsh Britons. Oswald then became king of Northumbria, and the Northumbrians, along with warriors sent by Domnall Brecc of Dal Riata (modern day Argyle and Bute in Scotland and Antrim in Northern Ireland) defeated Cadwallon's Britons at the Battle of Heavenfield (near modern day Hexham, about 20 miles west of Newcastle) in 634.

Oswald expanded Northumbria's lands northwards into Scotland as far as the Forth and westwards into Rheged and Strathclyde (modern day Cumbria and south west Scotland).

Oswald and the Irish monk, St Aidan converted the Northumbrian Angles and Celts to Christianity, with a monestary established at Lindisfarne in 635.

In 642, Oswald was killed by Penda, King of Mercia at Maserfield (near Oswestry on the English-Welsh border). Penda invaded Northumbria in 655 and was beaten at Winwaed (believed to be in or near present day Leeds), Oswiu of Northumbria gained supremacy over Mercia and became 'Bretwala', meaning 'Lord of Britain' the title given to the most powerful King of the English Kingdoms.

Mercia revolted in the late 650s under Penda's son Wulfhere, but Northumbria remained the dominant English Kingdom until the defeat to the Picts in 685 which weakened Northumbria's power in the north.

Viking and Scottish invasions weakened Northumbria's power its status was reduced to an Earldom stretching from the Tweed to the Humber. It was disputed territory between England and Scotland, but managed to remain large degrees of independence from both and was, in many ways a buffer zone between the English and Scots.

Following the Norman invasion, William Conqueror decided Northumbria was essential to the protection of England from the Scots and gained the allegiance of the Earl of Northumberland and the Bishop of Durham, but there were rebellions against Norman rule and William had to install his own man, Robert Comine as Earl to enforce a more direct Norman rule in Northumbria. But Comine and 700 of his men were killed in Durham by an anti-Norman uprising, which forced William to launch a full scale invasion.

The rebellions continued over a long period of time and William's son, William II partitioned Northumbria into the counties of Northumberland (River Tweed to River Tyne), Durham (River Tyne to River Tees) and Yorkshire (River Tees to River Humber). (These county boundries remained the same until 1974). The settlement of Monkchester (previously the Roman town of Pons Aelius) on the north bank of the Tyne had been identified by William the Conqueror as a strong defensive position to control the Tyne crossing and a temporary wooden castle had been built. William II decided to upgrade the defensive position, as it was now the main river crossing from Northumberland to Durham, a new castle was built, its importance was more than that of the surrounding settlement which began to grow as a garrison town and so the town itself became refered to as the new castle.

In 1139, Matilda of England granted Northumbria north of the Tees to David I of Scotland, but it was taken back by Henry II in 1157.


This is the flag used by the Kingdoms of Bernicia and later Northumbria, both as a Kingdom and Earldom.

It is now used as the Flag of Northumbria (and also by some in Newcastle and the Borough of North Tyneside who were hacked away from Northumberland in 1974 to form the fake Metropolitain County of Tyne and Wear with parts of northern County Durham.)

[bambergascoigne]

god tom, we were all going to say that, but there is a thing called 'modesty' you know. we dont all want to go round embarrassing people with our knowledge

[Tom_NUFC]

I only know because its my region. I'm massively interested in History, but my area is modern stuff. I wouldn't know if it wasn't because I'm from here.

Mind you, I am getting into some of the older stuff..........

[Bossanova]

common knowledge really

[Calean]

O.k. thanks Tom...so what qualifies something as an Earldom though?

[Tom_NUFC]

Originally Posted by calean007

O.k. thanks Tom...so what qualifies something as an Earldom though?

well, in the case of Northumbria. It had become subdued because of the Scots and Viking invasions I mentioned. The other Kingdoms (Mercia, Wessex, East Anglia, Essex, Kent and Sussex) merged into England and became Earldoms. Northumbria's position as a kingdom in its own right was weakened, so it also became an earldom under the English crown, although like I said, Northumbria was claimed by both England and Scotland and was treated by England as some sort of security or buffer zone. It was beneficial to both sides. England gets the buffer zone with Scotland and in return, Northumbria becomes an English earldom, with a large degree of autonomy, but has the protection of England against the Scots and Vikings.

[Calean]

Originally Posted by Tom_NUFC

well, in the case of Northumbria. It had become subdued because of the Scots and Viking invasions I mentioned. The other Kingdoms (Mercia, Wessex, East Anglia, Essex, Kent and Sussex) merged into England and became Earldoms. Northumbria's position as a kingdom in its own right was weakened, so it also became an earldom under the English crown, although like I said, Northumbria was claimed by both England and Scotland and was treated by England as some sort of security or buffer zone. It was beneficial to both sides. England gets the buffer zone with Scotland and in return, Northumbria becomes an English earldom, with a large degree of autonomy, but has the protection of England against the Scots and Vikings.

Not to mention killing a lot of Danish Vikings in the Danelaw to boot?

[Tom_NUFC]

Originally Posted by calean007

Not to mention killing a lot of Danish Vikings in the Danelaw to boot?

Yeah.

Mind you, a lot of them stuck around. Its still here in the language and the gene pool.

For example, in English you 'go home'.
In Danish you ' gan hjem' (pronounced h-yem)
In Geordie and other Northumbrian dialects you 'gan hyem' (pronounced h-yem)

[Calean]

Originally Posted by Tom_NUFC

Yeah.

Mind you, a lot of them stuck around. Its still here in the language and the gene pool.

For example, in English you 'go home'.
In Danish you ' gan hjem' (pronounced h-yem)
In Geordie and other Northumbrian dialects you 'gan hyem' (pronounced h-yem)

That much I did read on wikipedia...LOL

But yeah, vikings were all over the place, even in Scotland...probably explains my fair skin and blonde hair...

[Tom_NUFC]

Originally Posted by calean007

That much I did read on wikipedia...LOL

But yeah, vikings were all over the place, even in Scotland...probably explains my fair skin and blonde hair...

Yeah, but Scotland like Northumbria is just a longboat ride across the North Sea, so they went there in large numbers as well.

You look at Scottish surnames like Anderson or Henderson, they're actually Scandinavian and got there because of the Vikings. Those names are common round my way, but I'm not sure if thats down to Vikings or the mass Scottish and Irish migration to Tyneside in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

[Calean]

Originally Posted by Tom_NUFC

Yeah, but Scotland like Northumbria is just a longboat ride across the North Sea, so they went there in large numbers as well.

You look at Scottish surnames like Anderson or Henderson, they're actually Scandinavian and got there because of the Vikings. Those names are common round my way, but I'm not sure if thats down to Vikings or the mass Scottish and Irish migration to Tyneside in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

What do you call the mass Irish and Scottish Immigration of the modern day?

[Tom_NUFC]

Originally Posted by calean007

What do you call the mass Irish and Scottish Immigration of the modern day?

the mass Irish and Scottish Immigration of the modern day?
Except it doesn't really exist now.

[Calean]

Originally Posted by Tom_NUFC

the mass Irish and Scottish Immigration of the modern day?
Except it doesn't really exist now.

I'm really sucking at being a windup merchant today....



Well, for me studying about the area is really interesting, especially throwing in the Danelaw thing which spiced things up. If I remember right, wasn't it Ethelred the Unready who set that up?

[Tom_NUFC]

Originally Posted by calean007

I'm really sucking at being a windup merchant today....



Well, for me studying about the area is really interesting, especially throwing in the Danelaw thing which spiced things up. If I remember right, wasn't it Ethelred the Unready who set that up?

if you say so

[bardez]

Originally Posted by calean007

That much I did read on wikipedia...LOL

But yeah, vikings were all over the place, even in Scotland...probably explains my fair skin and blonde hair...

They didn't really get in Scotland, aside from the islands. Shetland etc. (Proven by gene testing carried out)

They did occupy around half of England, and knowing the language in as much as I do, there are many similarities, even localised ones.

[Tom_NUFC]

A fact I like is that, in Newcastle there are several tributries of the Tyne (most are now culveted and run underneath the city streets.

One of them, which ran through the centre of the city is the Lort Burn (Burn is what small rivers and streams are called in the North East and in Scotland). In the days before sewers the inhabitants of Newcastle used to empty their....ablutions shall we say, into the burn for hundreds of years, and it gave off a rather unpleasant odour. I'm not sure about the other Scandinavian languages, but I know that in Swedish 'Lort' means sh!te.

In other words, it's the Sh!te Burn because of what it was used for.

[bardez]

Originally Posted by Tom_NUFC

I'm not sure about the other Scandinavian languages, but I know that in Swedish 'Lort' means sh!te.

Same.
Or as the dictionary says 'dirt/filth'.


It's not used as a 'swear word' though, more 'literally' I guess.