Takeover, financial situation and behind the scenes talk

[EastStandManc]

Originally Posted by Devil<Red

Yeah but lets not forget there under siege by the prawn sandwich brigade now they have some cash


Nice to see the fans hitting the Glazers where it hurts to be honest . The only down side is that they will find a new avenue to sponser something within the club thus covering the missing income .

Honestly, sponsorships are the ketchup that goes over the chips of matchday revenue, so in that respect it's still good news..

That said (I'm loathe to admit it, but) I can still see OT filling up with even more JCL's / OOT's to make up the difference to take it to capacity, at least initially.

The true picture will probably be revealed in one of those cold, wet, November, half-5 kick-off games when United traditionally rely on the local regulars to reach capacity.

God only knows what OT'll look like early on in the Mickey Mouse cup, or if we qualify early for the second stage of the CL.

[Sparky]

Daily Mail

Manchester United's controversial owners, the Glazer family, are under renewed attack from fans groups as the club struggle to sell season tickets for the first time in the Premier League era.

United last week put 4,000 season tickets on general sale — seven weeks after the deadline for renewals — despite a big marketing campaign and having frozen prices. They had also claimed previously that they had a long waiting list.

However, after last season’s highly visible green-and-gold campaign — when anti-Glazer groups urged fans to don the club’s former colours in protest and consider boycotting merchandising and season tickets — pressure is growing on the unpopular Americans.

Two years ago United sold 64,000 season tickets in total, and last week they claimed they had reached 50,000 for the coming campaign.

But the announcement that tickets are on open sale has encouraged the Red Knights, the group of wealthy fans who want to buy out the Glazers, to believe again that a deal could still be done, despite their claims that they were withdrawing from the process in June.

‘Our interest may have been dormant but it is not dead,’ said Keith Harris, the former chairman of the Football League and now chairman of investment bankers Seymour Pierce. A United fan, he was the prime mover in forming the Red Knights.

Encouraged by reports, which United have refused to confirm or deny, that sales at Old Trafford may even be down by between 5,000-10,000, Harris said he and fellow consortium members led by Goldman Sachs chief economist Jim O’Neill, still want to see the Glazers quit the club, which they borrowed heavily to buy in 2005.

‘There is no change in our motivation of changing the regime,’ added Harris. ‘The news about season tickets is significant. If the sale level is below their budget and expectations, that will clearly have an impact on the Glazers’ business plan. Their margin for error is not huge.’

The Red Knights have been working closely with the Manchester United Supporters’ Trust and Independent Manchester United Supporters’ Association.

The MUST green-and-gold campaign has been a huge success but they stopped short of advising their 150,000-plus members not to renew season tickets.

IMUSA, however, urged a boycott and it looks as if it might be having an effect. Much will depend on how many of the club’s 8,500 premium seats have been sold. They bring in 40 per cent of match-day revenue.

The Red Knights claimed in the Spring to have access to £1.2billion, but the Glazers insisted then that there would be no sale.

Privately, however, they are believed to be willing to deal at £1.5bn — around double what they paid — but the Knights insist the club are not worth that, given that they are servicing more than £700m worth of debt.

The debts prompted the Glazers into a bond issue to raise £500m from City investment funds, which they did successfully earlier this year, although annual interest is thought to be around £43m.

One football financier said: ‘The Red Knights said they were not going to overpay and that the only way to remove the Glazers was for fans to bring economic pressure on them. This public sale of season tickets shows that United are being hit in the pocket and I suspect that will unnerve bond-holders.

'The club say corporate sales are going well but I don’t believe it, as the whole of the football industry is struggling in that department. This is an interesting development and we will see whether it starts to get the Glazers worried.’

The Red Knights might delay any move until next month, when United publish their latest financial results.

While not all United fans support the Red Knights, the Glazers seem to be losing the propaganda war.

They refused to co-operate with a BBC Panorama investigation into their business debts, and many supporters believe Sir Alex Ferguson’s reluctance to compete in the transfer market — repeatedly claiming there is ‘no value’ — is down to the financial shackles being placed on the club.

[Donny1916]

Strong words from Fergie in support of the Glazers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...e-Glazers.html

Sir Alex Ferguson tells Manchester United fans he has no complaints about the Glazers

Sir Alex Ferguson has delivered a barely-concealed rebuke to the campaign against the Glazer family by claiming that the Manchester United owners – who have taken the club into £716.5 million of debt – have "done their job well".

The Glazers' running of United since their leveraged takeover, which was completed in May 2005, has become a toxic issue at Old Trafford, with antipathy towards the Americans escalating following January's £500 million bond issue to alleviate the club's financial burden.

With the Red Knights group yet to raise funds for an offer, however, and a proposed season-ticket boycott failing to materialise – more than 50,000 have been sold – the Glazers remain in situ, with sources close to the family insisting they have no plans to sell the club.

Ferguson said: "They [the Glazers] have done their job well. They support myself and they've supported the players. I've never been refused when I've asked for money for a player, so what can I do other than carry on the way we're doing it, and the way I'm allowed to carry on? I've no complaints.

"When Manchester United Football Club went plc [in 1991], without doubt it was always going to be bought. So it's unfair that, because a particular family like the Glazers have bought the club, they should come under criticism when anybody could havebought it.

"The debt has come through the club being bought out by an owner. No matter which business is bought nowadays, it's usually bought with debt. But because it's a football club, it seems to attract a different type of negative reporting via the media or particularly some of our fans."

With neighbours Manchester City set to take their summer spending beyond £100 million with the signing of Inter Milan forward Mario Balotelli, United's £17 million total spend on Chris Smalling and Javier Hernandez has led to accusations that the Glazers are restricting the funds available to Ferguson.

The majority of the £80 million banked from last summer's sale of Cristiano Ronaldo remains unspent and United have shown little inclination to compete for players at the top of end of the market.

But Ferguson insists that his transfer dealings will not be influenced by others. And he claims that supporters are now becoming disenchanted with the money being spent on wages and transfer fees.

He said: "The enormous amounts of money that are paid, not just for the transfer fees, but for salaries; I don't think it rests easy with supporters.

"But we're in such a competitive world that you're hamstrung. Over the years, we've bought players for quite high amounts like Berbatov, Ferdinand, Veron and Rooney, but we try to equate how we're going to get the proper value before we do it.

"We take a view of it and say let's look at our own young players. Have they got the ability? How much can we trust them? Do we see a top player in that young player?

"When I see some of the values now, and you're talking about players at £40 million or £30 million-odd, we have to assess our own players first. And we're not bad, you know.

"There are some good young players who have come through the system. They understand the club, they're loyal to the club, and we can build through that.

"We don't build a footballer just in terms of ability, we try to build their character to make them better human beings and to understand their responsibilities."

IN HIS OWN WORDS...

Ferguson on retirement:

“Whenever I do go, I don't see it being tomorrow. There will be a point when I do quit but I have absolutely no idea when that is. I tried that a few years ago and it was an absolute disaster. Agony. My wife made me change my mind and she was dead right.”

What his successor needs:

“You have to ingrain yourself into the fabric of the club immediately. I was never afraid of it. I was proud to be part of the history. After that, you need a strong personality, a strong mentality and of course you need to know the game. For a club our size, personality, experience and a good background are important things.”

Legacy:

“No matter when I quit, the club will be in good hands. I come back to the point of having young players, that there's no need for a complete overhaul of the playing squad. The squad I've got at the moment, there are probably 12 players under 21 which is a fantastic average age. The future should be pretty secure with them.

[EastStandManc]

Got this in my inbox today.

Must be bad if you need to offer £15 off United tickets to sell 'em!

Keep up the good work lads.

[Boovy]

Viagogo is fvcking despicable

They buy unsold tickets for a fraction of the price and then sell them on for sometimes more than double face value, even with £15 off they'll still make an absolute utter killing

I hope that website dies, fvcking parasites

[Nonedy]

Is that the same website that offers the ticket exchange? As mentioned, it's a rip off and they charge a £20-£30 handling fee.

[EastStandManc]

I registered when the service started but was put off by the markup and haven't bothered with it since.

Today's e-mail is the first since my registration confirmation way back when. Like I say, 'desperate times' and all that ...

[Devil<Red]

Anyone else had the questionnair off the club asking why you haven't taken them up on a season ticket this season .

It had a multi choice question which had the answer . I choose not to take a season ticket as there hasn't been enough investment in the team



The f^ckers must be in a panic as to why the season tickets are in decline . The sad thing is they already know the answers why there not otherwise they wouldn't have put that answer in the options .

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by Devil<Red

Anyone else had the questionnair off the club asking why you haven't taken them up on a season ticket this season .

It had a multi choice question which had the answer . I choose not to take a season ticket as there hasn't been enough investment in the team



The f^ckers must be in a panic as to why the season tickets are in decline . The sad thing is they already know the answers why there not otherwise they wouldn't have put that answer in the options .

Just had an e-mail through from MUST, haven't read it fully, only quick glimpse on the Blackberry. Just saying about the trust behind failing to sell all season tickets.

I'm actually surprised that 4000 still haven't been sold, I thought if this situation happened, the tickets would get snapped up easily.

Got to say, if I had a season ticket I wouldn't be able to give it up.

[Seifer]

Sky Sports:

Harris plays down United bid
No point in Red Knights' offer for United

Seymour Pierce executive chairman Keith Harris believes a Red Knights bid for Manchester United would be pointless as the Glazers will not sell.

The Red Knights are a group of wealthy investors linked with a takeover move of the Red Devils, but have currently shelved offer plans due to the club's uneconomic valuation.

The consortium remain 'committed' to buying the Premier League giants from the Glazers, although Harris, who is part of the group, does not believe a bid would make any impression.

Harris insists that until the Glazers are willing to listen to offers and sit down and meet prospective buyers then any thoughts of tabling a bid would be a waste of time.
Not for sale

"The message I thought came loud and clear from the current owners that they are not interested in selling it," he told Sky Sports News.

"I've been around long enough in the trading business to know that for a trade to happen it requires a seller and a buyer who will meet.

"If the owner is not a seller and owns all of it and isn't under pressure to sell it then there isn't going to be a deal.

"I don't think there's any point (in a bid). If you had such a clear message that the current owners don't want to meet with a prospective buyer then I think you've got to say 'there's no purpose in tabling a bid'.

"Bids were tabled in the past and were declined. They obviously don't feel under pressure or under desire to do it today."

Harris came under personal criticism from United's chief executive David Gill following news of the Red Knights' reported bid.

He labelled the executive chairman a publicity hound, although after being given the chance to respond to the allegation Harris refused to hit back.

"I wasn't involved in the Red Knights going public," he continued. "There was a reporter that got a wind of it. I don't believe in these things going public until the right moment.

"Personal assaults don't have any place in business. This is why I stayed silent on the issue."

Harris does believe that one day United will be part owned by the club's vast following, although he was unable to put an exact timescale on the suggestion due to the Glazers' current stance on the possibility of selling up.

"The concept of a club of that order having partial ownership by its loyal, devoted and money-paying fans is a laudable one," he concluded.

"At some stage that could happen. Predicting when it depends on other circumstances which are not within the control of the would-be buyers, you can't say any more."

[The_Big_Easy]

Do any of us really think that ANYTHING we do will make any difference whatsoever, if the Glazer family do not want to sell the club ?

The Red Knight’s have (supposedly) tabled £1bn and have been rebuffed (& to be honest, looking at the debts and the PIK’s and the Bond issue – that figure is well wide of the mark)

To give the Glazers the incentive to walk away, I’d say the offer would have to be “£1bn and we’ll take on your debts” that equates to only just above the clubs market value - and when you consider that the Glazers can take out £140m per year between now and when the bond matures (7 years = £0.98bn) even that wouldn’t be that attractive to them.

I can honestly say that I can’t see any light at the end on the tunnel, No mater how many of us boycott, march and wave the G&G, the Glazer family will not care, they have already been photographed laughing at the LUHG banners in the Stretty & they are the kind of hard nosed business men who don’t respond to protests.

I won’t stop & I know a lot of other United fans won’t but it’s a fact that a week on Monday there will be clueless morons wearing shiny new AON branded shirts & a G&G scarf, the ground will still be 95% full & all those time-served Reds who have thrown there Season Tickets back in the face of the Americans, will have been replaced by ‘1 game a season’ day-trippers, who have paid £99 for a £42 tickets, a Megastore voucher and fish ‘n chips !

If the likes of Keith Harris – with his financial clout and wealthy friends are waving the white flag and looking elsewhere, what can WE realistically do ?

http://thebusbyway.com/2010/08/04/im-green-gold-but/

[Irishman]

How fecking depressing is our financial situation. Liverpool, city and Chelsea will dominate us in the transfer Market for the forseeable future.

[fisherman]

the red knights,not even tabled a bid yet so how the **** do they no if there bid will happen or not?sick to death of all this crap now the red nights will buy united,i was all for it,but now think there just full of **** made us live in hope then dumped us,every year i usually watch united on there tours but for some reason this year ive not even bothered with following them on tour,does not feel right anymore united cannot even compete in transfer marker,its ****eeeeeee,city chelsea liverpool have it all,we have nothing,but sir alex and gill still say theres millions to spend,fvcking bollocks they are talking,makes me feel so down about my club

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by fisherman

the red knights,not even tabled a bid yet so how the **** do they no if there bid will happen or not?sick to death of all this crap now the red nights will buy united,i was all for it,but now think there just full of **** made us live in hope then dumped us,

They are full of ****? Glazers don't want to sell, what do you expect 'The Red Knights' to do? They would have to offer silly money which the club isn't worth.

Made us live in hope? Don't build your hopes up then. I knew they wouldn't get United off the Glazers, I didn't build my hopes up, just waited to see what happend.

every year i usually watch united on there tours but for some reason this year ive not even bothered with following them on tour,does not feel right anymore

So you are no longer a United fan because we're not spending money in the transfer market? What a good attitude.

Just to let you know, the campaign is LOVE UNITED > Hate Glazer

united cannot even compete in transfer marker,its ****eeeeeee,city chelsea liverpool have it all,we have nothing,but sir alex and gill still say theres millions to spend,fvcking bollocks they are talking,makes me feel so down about my club

Liverpool have it all? Hang on, what? They still have the yanks in charge, they still have debt like us and nothing has happened with the takeover. Even when the takeover goes through, how do you know they won't go the same way they are in now?

[mart]

They are full of ****?

He's right in saying that although I don't agree with the rest.

The Red Dwarfs are so full of sh*t it's unreal, even if there offer was accepted they would of had to of borrowed money just like the Glazers to fund the takeover the whole reason they're using as their reason to try the takeover, the club would still be saddled with debt but with different owners. The cynic in me doubts they would throw as much into it as is needed without expecting some financial return regardless if they're fans or not.

Don't get me wrong I want the Glazers out but I don't think the Red Dwarfs are all their cracked up to be.

[Sparky]

Originally Posted by mart

I don't think the Red Dwarfs are all their cracked up to be.

Oh of course, no doubt about it. But they have more interest in the club itself then the Glazers do.

[EastStandManc]

Originally Posted by mart

The Red Dwarfs are so full of sh*t it's unreal, even if there offer was accepted they would of had to of borrowed money just like the Glazers

Where did you get that idea from? Any links would be appreciated. As far as I'm aware, the money is there, of that there's no doubt.

the club would still be saddled with debt but with different owners.

That's because there are penalties for early debt repayment, in full, before 2016.

Basically it costs less in the long run to continue meeting repayments, as scheduled, until 2016 and then clear the remaining debt once the penalty clause expires.

The cynic in me doubts they would throw as much into it as is needed without expecting some financial return regardless if they're fans or not.

I won't deny some trepidation on this matter, but as long as we are debt-free, I will be happy. Don't forget United was run so comfortably before the Glazer takeover that they could afford to pay healthy dividends to shareholders. So, as long as the investors are happy with a steady long-term return in a similar way, I don't see it being much to worry about.

If we get one or two particularly aggressive investors, that's where the trouble might lie.

[mart]

Where did you get that idea from? Any links would be appreciated. As far as I'm aware, the money is there, of that there's no doubt.

I first heard about it on the radio or a tv program I think I can't remember now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...d-hopeful.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...n-Knights.html

They kind of go into it.

Edit - Thinking about it all the Red Dwarf talk is pointless anyway I suppose because they've admitted now they can't buy the club mainly because the Glazers won't sell. I guess unless some Arab comes with a 3 billion bid or something daft we're stuck with the cnuts.

[EastStandManc]

Originally Posted by mart

I first heard about it on the radio or a tv program I think I can't remember now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...d-hopeful.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...n-Knights.html

They kind of go into it.

Edit - Thinking about it all the Red Dwarf talk is pointless anyway I suppose because they've admitted now they can't buy the club mainly because the Glazers won't sell. I guess unless some Arab comes with a 3 billion bid or something daft we're stuck with the cnuts.

I'm not being ar$ey or owt - I genuinely am looking for evidence of lack of funds if it truly exists - but the Telegraph article is conjecture when it gets down to the part about the Knights lacking funds.

As for Martin Samuel - well, don't even get me started on that ABU cnut. Suffice to say he can fück right off.


I suppose I'd be more sceptical if we weren't talking about a world of financiers where £10m is pocket money and the chance at owning (at least in part) wasn't so real a prospect (especially) given the Glazers' financial situation.

Oh, BTW, I had two calls yesterday from a London-based number apparently trying to get me to subscribe to Inside United (apparently, because it was my sis who took the call). Talk about 'every last avenue' ...

LU/HG

[Sparky]

The latest cost cutting

MANCHESTER UNITED stars will have their bonus structure slashed as owners the Glazers plan more cost-cutting.

Boss Sir Alex Ferguson is preparing for today's Wembley clash with Chelsea but his players have been told the incentives for winning the Premier League, Champions League and FA Cup are being reduced.

United chief executive David Gill has already had talks with the players, but the club say they must agree on the changes before the start of the season.

United argue that the players are already so well paid that they do not need a huge bonus scheme.

Many of the players are already on £100,000 plus- a-week and most have lucrative image rights payments built in.

Until now Premier League success has been worth just over £100,000 a man to United's stars, but that's set to fall.

Champions League, FA Cup and Carling Cup bonuses will also be affected by the restructuring.

One United source said: "The bonuses are up there with the very best in the game, but there is a new financial reality at the club and across the game.

"The club are placing a greater emphasis to ensure players such as Nemanja Vidic and Wayne Rooney are tied to long-term improved contracts."

The changes are just another sign of the Glazer family counting every penny as they assess the club's long-term future.

Last season non-essential staff at the club's Carrington training base were even stopped from taking porridge and fruit juices at breakfast in an effort to save cash.

[Gib710]

They're well enough paid to not need the incentive of money to inspire them to success.

We don't want a Carlos '£160k a week and I don't feel motivated because I didn't win the World Cup' Tevez in our ranks.

[EastStandManc]

You know, I'm not a hypocrite and I'm not about to start now. What Gib says is true and what was said here:

... there is a new financial reality ... across the game ...

is also spot on. I'm not going to say in one breath that I agree with that and in another slate the Glazers for taking this measure.

All I will say is that, TBH, I'm simply surprised the Glazers took so long to do it.

[Sparky]

From a geezer on Redcafe.

Arctic Ice (American company) have replaced Lucozade as our Energy Drink sponsor.

Lucozade have deals with every other club in the Premier League so presumably the Arctic Ice boys have paid us more than Lucozade were willing to.

The 'Viva Bahrain' logo is now listed on the club's website.

The PCCW (Hong Kong) deal has been officially announced today (three year deal, no word on how much the deal is worth): Reds join forces with PCCW - Manchester United Official Web Site

No sign of 'aigo' on the LED boards last night so presumably that sponsorship has ended.

So the last six months has seen the AIG, Budweiser, aigo and Lucozade deals end.

At the same time new deals have been signed with AON, Singha Beer, Turkish Airlines, Arctic Ice, Thomas Cook, Concha y Toro, Telekom Malaysia, Viva Bahrain, MTN (South Africa telecom) and PCCW (Hong Kong telecom).

[Boovy]

Im sure it wasn't AIGO on the LED boards....hublot maybe?

[Sparky]

The Glazer family must pay an eye watering 16.25 per cent on the Payment in Kind (PIK) debt it owes as part of the 2005 Manchester United acquisition, Bloomberg confirms today. The anticipated increase will add an extra £5 million annually to the debt that will climb to £270 million by 2011 and £310 million by 2012.

The notes, which are due in 2017, will continue to increase in value unless the family pays it off, culminating in a bill of more than £600 million if no payments are made. The Glazer family took out the notes in 2005 as part of the highly leveraged takeover, with two rounds of refinancing, including the January 2010 £504 million bond, failing to address the PIK debt.

Including the PIK notes – £202 million at last published figures – and bond, United’s total debt is effectively £706 million rising to around £770 next year and in excess of £810 million the year afterwards.

“PIKs can make sense at certain times but given the rate at which interest accumulates they can quickly wipe out equity,” said Jonathan Moore, a high-yield analyst at Evolution Securities, told Bloomberg.

“You’d expect owners to take them out as soon as they’re able to.”

Indeed, January’s bond removed the restrictive covenants placed by banks on the club’s former senior debt and offers United’s management greater flexibility in the way it uses the company’s cash reserves. The Glazers have an option under the terms of the bond to take £70 million out of the club to pay down other debt this year, and 50 per cent of United’s profits in dividends, management fees and loans on an ongoing basis.

The bond substantially increases United’s interest payments, leading most analysts, including underwriters JP Morgan, to conclude that partial PIK debt repayment will take place in the coming months. The family may already have removed the £70 million from United’s coffers but supporters may not find out until the club’s Q1 2010/11 results are published in the autumn.

Although United is not directly liable for the PIK debt – it is owned by a Glazer holding company called Red Football Joint Venture Ltd. – analysis by the blogger Andersred earlier this year demonstrated that the family has no other source from which to pay down the debt or face losing the club in 2017.

It is this very prospect, with Sir Alex Ferguson’s spending limited to a net £6.7 million per season under the Glazer regime, that so inflamed the United support this year, with more than 160,000 supporters joining the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST).

Ferguson has spent around £24 million bringing Chris Smalling, Javier Hernández and Bébé to the club this summer, with another £14 million recouped from the sales of Ben Foster, Zoran Tosic and Craig Cathcart.

However, with the Red Knights yet to make a bid for the club, and no other serious bidder yet on the table, United supporters may have to swallow limited net spending by the club in the coming seasons.

The Red Knights group, including Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Chief Economist Jim O’Neill, confirmed this week that it still intends to bid for the club, with reports of new “anchor bidders” from the Middle East injecting cash into the consortium.

Despite this, the group has said it will not bid for United until the Glazer family reduces its £1.5 billion asking price to “a sensible price” of less than £1 billion.