2 black days for German soccer so far

[Mertesacker]

Leverkusen choked like they always do.

Bremen who IMO have the best strikers in the Bundesliga were demolished at home bye the French champion Lyon.

Bayern won against Arsenal but at Highbury everything is possible and because of that goal Arsenal still have all the possibilities to go trough.

Schalke today played like ****, very arrogant as if it just couldn't happen to lose against a club like Shaktar.

Aachen gave their best and it's not a shame for a 2. Bundesliga side to lose gainst AZ Alkmaar, but still not good for German soccer.

Let's just hope that Suttgart can go trough but I'm not too optimistic about it either!

Well, let's face it, Bundesliga is losing ground again!

[Cyan]

Well I still have hope in Lever. I also think we can win in London just like we won in Munchen.
Stuttgart is now well lets pray they win today. Dinamo won in Herta9prooving that Lusescu is a top coach)

[Distant Voices]

To be fair where you surprised by Leverkusen ?
They have a small squad and without Nowotny and Roque Junior-it was always going to be tough with Schneider and the kid Callsen-Bracker in defence.
Bremen played okay but chasing a 1-1 were hit by two late goals.

Schalke in the Uefa-well who really cares ?
They will be far happier winning the liga or at least playing in the CL next season.

The problem with German football is that only Bayern can compete in Europe as they are the ones that have the finances.
Schalke, Dortmund, Leverkusen all have had moments of glory but they did not have the financial power to maintain that challenge plus when you see the best players from Leverkusen and Dortmund joining rivals Bayern then what real chance do we have.

Wages and ticket prices are alot less than England, Spain and Italy whose leagues are flooded with foreign players-better foreign players than Germany.

I think we should stop thinking about being the best.We can't afford to unless you want ticket prices increased and clubs to overspend on top foreign players.

We cannot compete at club level.Let's just enjoy being 4th/5th best league, atractive football at cheaper prices, more German youth in teams and let the other leagues go bankrupt.
We need to be realistic.

[Mertesacker]

It's a bit sad nevertheless.

But I agree, I'd rather be able to afford going to games than seeing the Bundesliga go the same way the EPL is going!

The attendances will always be huge here no matter how German clubs do in Europe.

[Cyan]

We must be alitle more optimistic. Alemania achen is in the second division look how far they made it. Lever can beat Liverpool 2-0 I am sure of it.
Bremen is lacking no doubt about it.

[Mertesacker]

Ha, Suttgart now also as good as gone!

Well, there's always next year!

[palmerq]

What was the results in the uefa cup tonight, and are games in germany cheap to get into?

[Mertesacker]

All German teams lost (well STuttgart hast still some minutes).

Well, I would not say cheap but at least affordable.

http://epaper01.niedersachsen.com/eZeitung/2005022523984html/NP/images/img91682.jpg

[palmerq]

How can schalke manage it, they are joint top with bayern who just gave arsenal a beating and lose at home to Shaktar, who are good but not that good. I see parma have also had a man sent off before they scored shocking performance, Aachen have done well though, Iwelumos' influence I hope.

[Mertesacker]

Parma didn't even take the UEFA cup serious and are still able to beat Stuttgart.

Auxerre, Lyon, Lille through....

[Gerry_BMG]

Parma, Donezk and Alkmaar were just better today, sad but its the way it is. Dont understand some arrogant Stuttgart fans who booed the team and some burned their scarf. Acknowledge that Parma was better goddammit, you Stupid!
Parma, Donezk and Lyon showed how to play german side in away games. Be good in defence and the rest will follow, german sides cant handle it. Although Bremen had many chances, more than Lyon and should have atleast scored 1 or 2 times.
We suck in Europe for 3-4 years now. This dont really come as a surprise, does it? And I dont share the view that its just because we lack money, look at Schalke who spend more money than most teams in Spain, Italy. Adding France dont have that much money either but they do quite well in Europe, comparing the strength of the teams with german ones.

@distant: Schneider always plays right back at Leverkusen, and did it very well the whole time, except this week against Liverpool.

[palmerq]

We suck in Europe for 3-4 years now.I also sucked in europe for a few years I made quite a few Francs from it too, but then this euro came into being and I didn't change it so now I'm in as much trouble as Dortmund. :drinkbeer :drinkbeer :drinkbeer :ninja :drinkbeer

[palmerq]

@distant: Schneider always plays right back at Leverkusen, and did it very well the whole time, except this week against Liverpool.Lets kick his ass, I know the Love Street Division.

[Gerry_BMG]

I also sucked in europe for a few years I made quite a few Francs from it too, but then this euro came into being and I didn't change it so now I'm in as much trouble as Dortmund. :drinkbeer :drinkbeer :drinkbeer :ninja :drinkbeer You know we have a big political scandal currently concerning illegal whores coming to germany by a ****ed up visa-politic. Maybe you can still sneak in before they fix this problem. I suggest the Reeperbahn district to make some Euro. But beware! your arse will suffer a lot. :ninja

[palmerq]

You know we have a big political scandal currently concerning illegal whores coming to germany by a ****ed up visa-politic. Maybe you can still sneak in before they fix this problem. I suggest the Reeperbahn district to make some Euro. But beware! your arse will suffer a lot. :ninjaNo more than it has suffered allready( maybe I shouldn't admit to this) but I can make big money here, I have a boat I can still get into your country next stop Rostock, I fear for my ringpiece :nono :handbags :ninja :drinkbeer

[Distant Voices]

Parma, Donezk and Alkmaar were just better today, sad but its the way it is. Dont understand some arrogant Stuttgart fans who booed the team and some burned their scarf. Acknowledge that Parma was better goddammit, you Stupid!
Parma, Donezk and Lyon showed how to play german side in away games. Be good in defence and the rest will follow, german sides cant handle it. Although Bremen had many chances, more than Lyon and should have atleast scored 1 or 2 times.
We suck in Europe for 3-4 years now. This dont really come as a surprise, does it? And I dont share the view that its just because we lack money, look at Schalke who spend more money than most teams in Spain, Italy. Adding France dont have that much money either but they do quite well in Europe, comparing the strength of the teams with german ones.

@distant: Schneider always plays right back at Leverkusen, and did it very well the whole time, except this week against Liverpool.

Stuttgart have alot of new fans who started supprting the team when Magath was manager because we were winning.Our crowds went from 22,000 to 40,000.
So there are alot of assholes and as soon as we end up in the middle of the liga they will leave and support Bayern...

Having said all that since Christmas we have been shocking.
1-1 draw with Lautern, 2-4 Nurnberg, 1-2 at Hamburg and now beaten by Parma's reserve team at home.We should be joint top in the liga now.
Magath is gone-Hildebrand wants to leave-our stupid managers delayed over money and we did not sign Hoffman or Trochowski when we should have.

In all very frustrating times.

[jambon-beurre]

if Gilardino plays, it's not their reserve, I would say ...

[Al_the drummer]

Christ what a kick in thee balls for German football, disgusting.

I think Distant is right, we are not a top league like I thought we were and will probably linger on the periffery from now on. In a morbid sort of way it's good beacuse we won't have the all these ferrari driving super-stars on 60k a week who always bend over at the sight of an English or Spanish cheque book anyway. We still have our dignity unlike England and with a finacial crisis teams like Dortmund are showing us that we do indeed have the young players that we were told we didn't have by Berti Vogts in 98. Our stadiums are full and deveoping nicely in line for the WM, the fan culture is superior to other Europein league. It's strange beacuse we are miles behinde England, Italy and Spain but miles in-front of France and Holland so we continue to lie somewhere in the middle occiassonly burrowing upwards to fight it out with the big boys but soon kicked back down again like this week has shown.

[palmerq]

Christ what a kick in thee balls for German football, disgusting.

I think Distant is right, we are not a top league like I thought we were and will probably linger on the periffery from now on. In a morbid sort of way it's good beacuse we won't have the all these ferrari driving super-stars on 60k a week who always bend over at the sight of an English or Spanish cheque book anyway. We still have our dignity unlike England and with a finacial crisis teams like Dortmund are showing us that we do indeed have the young players that we were told we didn't have by Berti Vogts in 98. Our stadiums are full and deveoping nicely in line for the WM, the fan culture is superior to other Europein league. It's strange beacuse we are miles behinde England, Italy and Spain but miles in-front of France and Holland so we continue to lie somewhere in the middle occiassonly burrowing upwards to fight it out with the big boys but soon kicked back down again like this week has shown.I'm not so sure(please note due to alcohol I have only read the 1st paragraph) Schalke and stuttgart can compete with bayern in the domestic leagues, I think it could have something to do with the mentality of the teams, bayern have not be tottaly convincing this season but they perform well in europe, and the other two make a balls up of it, maybe because bayern have a history of being a big team in europe and the other don't believe that they are, so maybe don't have the same belief as bayern that they should be winning, I have no doubt that stuttgart are better than parma, I however do beleive that Shaktar are highly underrated.


Michelle Marsh, in good looking stakes, is highly overrated :drinkbeer :drinkbeer :drinkbeer
welcome to the jungle

[equinox24]

Leverkusen choked like they always do.
Not a big suprise.

[jambon-beurre]

It's strange beacuse we are miles behinde England, Italy and Spain but miles in-front of France and Holland
Hum hum. :nono
Well, I don't think the germans are miles in-front of France, the Werder-Lyon match is in itself an argument. I would rather say :

1. Italy - Spain - England

2. Germany - France

3. Netherlands - Portugal

[palmerq]

I have to agree with you old mate lyon are highly underrated.

[Ballack13]

I disagreee..In my opinion the Bundesliga is better than the EPL. Say what you think but German teams are far better technically and tactically. England plays faster but the play is very disorganized and apart from the top teams, they cannot hold the ball for ****!

Look at the Champions league, the only English team to win was Liverpool and that is because Leverkusen is so crap on the road. They can easily score a 2-0 at home next game. Man U lost at home. Arsenal got their asses kicked and Chelsea lost as well.

I saw Newcastle and Middlesbor play in the Uefa cup and they were even fortunate against poor opposition(heereveen and an Austrian team). German teams in the Uefa cup had it much harder with Parma, Shaktar. No shame in Aachen losing, they did extremely well for a 2nd division side. I agree that the german performance in the uefa cup was piss poor but that doesnt mean the leage is bad!

[Al_the drummer]

In terms of fan support, finance and public backing Germany are many miles ahead of France, I'm a huge admirier of French football the way they blood talent after talent and play some truly beutiful football but it simply isn't as big in France as it is in Germany, the average fan attendences tell that story.

[jambon-beurre]

I don't say the german league is bad. It's the most spectacular in Europe (lots of goals) but it's not imo one of the 3 top leagues.
Chelsea and ManU lost their matches but that was a tough opposition : Barca and Milan. Every german team would have been defeated by those 2 teams.

[jambon-beurre]

In terms of fan support, finance and public backing Germany are many miles ahead of France, I'm a huge admirier of French football the way they blood talent after talent and play some truly beutiful football but it simply isn't as big in France as it is in Germany, the average fan attendences tell that story.
True. I'm only talking about the football quality of the leagues. In terms of finance, France and Germany are really close, the main difference is the public.
I saw this week that the balance of the german vs french teams in the Champions League is : 14 victory for germans, 13 victory for french, 5 draws. It's pretty well-balanced ...