The S*n's hollow apology.

[Kastra]

Here is there 'apology'

---------

IT is 15 years since The Sun committed the most terrible mistake in its history.

By making grave and untrue allegations about the behaviour of Liverpool fans during the Hillsborough disaster, we enraged the city.

But more importantly, we tarnished the memory of 96 soccer fans who had tragically lost their lives.

And our carelessness and thoughtlessness following that blackest of days made the grief of their families and friends even harder to bear.

We long ago apologised publicly to the victims’ families, friends and to the city of Liverpool for our awful error.

We gladly say sorry again today: fully, openly, honestly and without reservation.

If there was any way we could take back our erroneous words of 15 years ago, and by so doing ease the deep anguish we caused to so many people in mourning, we would do it.

But there isn’t. We can only hope that time will be the great healer.

Sadly, for some people in the city of Liverpool, forgetting — never mind forgiving — is impossible.

If they want to hate The Sun, then that is their right. We are hardly in a position to blame them.

What we find impossible to take, though, is the way some of Liverpool is turning its anger on one of the greatest footballing talents the city has ever seen.

Wayne Rooney is one of Liverpool’s finest sons.

At 18, he is the nation’s hero of Euro 2004 and has the potential to outscore England legends like Jimmy Greaves, Bobby Charlton and Alan Shearer.

On Merseyside, his name should be the toast of every pub, street and school.

Instead, he is being vilified by some Liverpool and Everton fans.

We can understand the grief of those who lost loved ones at Hillsborough.

We do not condemn the outspoken words of men like John Glover, whose son died in the tragedy, for his loss entitles him to hold any opinion he wishes.

But the words of other fans leave us in despair.

Wayne Rooney was just three years old at the time of Hillsborough. He and his fiancee Coleen are devastated by this unfair backlash. He should not be punished in 2004 for a mistake The Sun made in 1989. Don’t visit our past sins on him.

One view on a Liverpool website is that by telling his life story in The Sun, Wayne has “signed his soul away to the devil.”

Another is that he has “accepted 30 pieces of silver.”

For goodness sake, give the lad a chance.

It’s not as if Wayne’s the first footballer from Merseyside to talk to The Sun.

We have enjoyed a good working relationship with many players and managers over the years.

And nearly all Liverpool-born celebrities regularly talk to Britain’s favourite daily newspaper.

What The Sun finds most depressing about what is going on in Liverpool is the way trouble is stirred up by the local papers, the Post and the Echo.

Who owns the Post and Echo?

None other than Trinity Mirror.

The same company that owns The Sun’s rival, the Daily Mirror.

The misery being inflicted on Wayne Rooney is a crude effort by them to make commercial gain.

We hope that the people of modern Liverpool, a city of spirit and sophistication, are not taken in.

A brilliant young athlete, a credit to his club, his city and his country, is being pilloried by the very people who should be hailing him a hero.

And The Sun of 2004 no more deserves to be hated on Merseyside than Wayne Rooney does.

For a start, most of today’s staff weren’t on The Sun in 1989 and today’s Editor was a 20-year-old student.

Many of the callers to BBC Radio Merseyside have acknowledged that fact.

Fifteen years is a long time.

It is 11 years longer than the First World War, nine years longer than the Second World War.

We cannot believe these protests properly represent the opinions of the majority of men and women in Liverpool.

No one will ever forget the terrible Hillsborough tragedy, nor those who died and their loved ones.

But trashing a young man of whom everyone should be proud is not the way to honour their memory.

It is time to move on.


---------




Sadly, for some people in the city of Liverpool, forgetting — never mind forgiving — is impossible.
Childish and provking.

What The Sun finds most depressing about what is going on in Liverpool is the way trouble is stirred up by the local papers, the Post and the Echo.

Who owns the Post and Echo?

None other than Trinity Mirror.

The same company that owns The Sun’s rival, the Daily Mirror.

Cheap shots at your rivals when your supposed to be apologising.

And nearly all Liverpool-born celebrities regularly talk to Britain’s favourite daily newspaper.

Patting yourselves on the back with your 'favourite daily newspaper' remark

It is time to move on.
Unbelievable.


So in this apology they have: a) Slagged off the people of Merseyside b) Bigged themselves up c) Had a cheap shot at their rivals d) Tell us to brush it under the carpet. :censored

Half hearted attempt at an apology wrote by a prick,anyone else could have done a better job.

15 years too late, will never be forgiven.

[Rev]

what a laugh...stoopid s*n

[Kastra]

Assistant Sun editor on the local radio now getting ripped into, if you want to listen anyone,I'll try find an internet link for yous.

[Ystoop]

I understand the people of Merseysides' view on this but I also can see The Sun's point of view. But most of all Its Wayne Rooney that I feel sorry for. Does he really deserve the 'backlash' he is receiving?

[Kastra]

I understand the people of Merseysides' view on this but I also can see The Sun's point of view. But most of all Its Wayne Rooney that I feel sorry for. Does he really deserve the 'backlash' he is receiving?


Rooney is caught in the middle of this, the Sun is the hated one, you only need to listen to this phone in to understand that. Some guy has just phoned up and said why can't they put it on the front page 'WE LIED' rather than tucking it away on page 8 or whatever it was. The editor came back saying 'we're a new regime, not the 1989 one, so don't blame us, it was 15 years ago' the fella then said 'well if your a new regime, we can't you put that headline on page 1 now if your a new regime, better late than never. Absolutely spot on

[Ystoop]

Rooney is caught in the middle of this, the Sun is the hated one, you only need to listen to this phone in to understand that. Some guy has just phoned up and said why can't they put it on the front page 'WE LIED' rather than tucking it away on page 8 or whatever it was. The editor came back saying 'we're a new regime, not the 1989 one, so don't blame us, it was 15 years ago' the fella then said 'well if your a new regime, we can't you put that headline on page 1 now if your a new regime, better late than never. Absolutely spot on

Dindn't know that. Indeed if they are in a 'new era' they should just come out with it. If not on the Front Page then on the Back page!

[Kastra]

Dindn't know that. Indeed if they are in a 'new era' they should just come out with it. If not on the Front Page then on the Back page!


That would still not be enough, they will simply never be totally forgiven, but it may ease a little of the pain.

[Shanks]

******* pricks, jeesus, they are only doing it to get people of Rooneys back, not cos they are truly sorry for what they did. For a min there it looked like they were just coming out and apologising, but no, there was an incentive. No ammmounts of apologies will ever make it better, so **** off.

[Stevedox]

Ok, i'm sorry to be dumb and to bring this up but what did they say 15 years ago?

I imaging they blamed the fans rather than the police, or is it something to do with someone saying about fans corpses being looted?

I dunno, sorry to stir up emotions but i want to know.

[kew-al]

:banghead :banghead :banghead

I read about it on ltc.tv.

for me its not an apology for forgiveness for the ****e they spread, its just to take some pressure off rooney.

What we find impossible to take, though, is the way some of Liverpool is turning its anger on one of the greatest footballing talents the city has ever seen.

if rooney makes a mistake on/off the pitch, the papers will be the first to slam him.

It is time to move on.

cheeky twat.

the time to move on from what you did will be never.
stick your pathetic excuse for an apology.
I promise you, I, my future children, their childen and so on will never buy/read your ****e spreading filth.

[Stevedox]

So waht did they say?

[kew-al]

Shanks posted this on another thread.

The immediate reaction of the press following Hillsborough was to blame the fans. The proof is there for all to see and it extends way beyond the Sun's headlines. However as that headline is the most shocking even to this day it is only right that we remind people what they said:

The Truth; some fans picked pockets of victims; some fans urinated on the brave cops; some fans beat up PC giving kiss of life.

This was the front page of the Sun newspaper on the Wednesday following the Disaster. The question that has to be asked is where did the paper obtain its 'evidence' from - all routes lead back to South Yorkshire Police and the Lie Machine that was being put into operation.

The response to this headline on Merseyside was one of outrage - thousand of copies were stolen and burnt and there followed a successful boycott campaign of the paper.

To the present day that paper is still hated in the city of Liverpool and beyond and there are still shopkeepers that refuse to sell.

Responsibility for peddling lies goes beyond the s**. By the time that article was published there had been four days of offence reporting, nearly all blaming the fans.

tried to put it in my own words, but seemed inappropriate e.g. grammer and stuff

[Stevedox]

Cheers kew-al

[marko1892]

The Sun should have featured an apology somewhere on the front page at least. but i suppose its a start

[Shanks]

Time to move on, they say, cheeky bastards. Seems they havent cahnged a bit. we have all seen the apology for what it is, an attempt to help Rooney and stop pewople giving them ****. Protecting their investment. There is no thought for the people they hurt, nione whatsoever. they have sunk even lower, you can tell they just want the apology out the way at the beginning, so they can start talking about laying of Rooney.

**** of you scum, we will never move on. Why? Cos 96 families can never move on from seeing those headlines as the tried to grieve for their loved ones, and 96 friends, friends of every true red, have never had justice, so dont ever tell us to move on.

[brezipool]

F**k em! I hate the sun & the mirror, they just print lies all the time!

Very poor aplogy, he just slags off the people of Liverpool!

Disapointed in Rooney, he should have known better (maybe he did?)!?!?

But it is unfair to give hime stick, it was probably hsi agent that sorted the deal!

[Shanks]

Lets be honest, his agent has had a massive say, but nobody can tel me his family can be that thick to let him go ahead and do it, unless they are that money orientated.

[Stevedox]

Lets be honest, his agent has had a massive say, but nobody can tel me his family can be that thick to let him go ahead and do it, unless they are that money orientated.

Have you seen the clip of his family?

What they'll have told him/them is that the sun are trying to rebuild bridges and him doing the interview would help do that. He'd be seen in a good light and as a peace maker, ppl, especially those who work in tabliod newspapers can twist things and make you believe in things that are not true.

He's been duped, he probably thought he was doing a good thing, but in the end has brought it all back up in the way that niether would have wanted.

[Shanks]

Or maybe his family are money grabbing pricks.

[Stevedox]

Or maybe his family are money grabbing pricks.

Not really feesable is it when he's just been offered the contract he's getting. If he was a Liverpool player am sure you'd see this as a mistake, something that back fired rather than a money making scheme.

Don't be too hard on the lad coz he plays in blue, money isn't important to him, football is, and am sure if he knew the true implications of his actions he'd have never agreed to do it.

He's not exactly the sharpest tool in the box is he? I think the right thing to do is give him the benefit of the doubt, and be angry at who's really to blame, the newspaper. They knew what they were doing, they've got 100's of staff all degreed up making decisions.

[Fowksee]

Not really feesable is it when he's just been offered the contract he's getting. If he was a Liverpool player am sure you'd see this as a mistake, something that back fired rather than a money making scheme.

Don't be too hard on the lad coz he plays in blue, money isn't important to him, football is, and am sure if he knew the true implications of his actions he'd have never agreed to do it.

He's not exactly the sharpest tool in the box is he? I think the right thing to do is give him the benefit of the doubt, and be angry at who's really to blame, the newspaper. They knew what they were doing, they've got 100's of staff all degreed up making decisions.

Top post steve, summed up my feelings better than I could have done.

I really dont think Rooney shuold be the one getting stick for this.

[Shanks]

Not really feesable is it when he's just been offered the contract he's getting. If he was a Liverpool player am sure you'd see this as a mistake, something that back fired rather than a money making scheme.

Don't be too hard on the lad coz he plays in blue, money isn't important to him, football is, and am sure if he knew the true implications of his actions he'd have never agreed to do it.

He's not exactly the sharpest tool in the box is he? I think the right thing to do is give him the benefit of the doubt, and be angry at who's really to blame, the newspaper. They knew what they were doing, they've got 100's of staff all degreed up making decisions.

Mate, a Liverpool player wouldnt do it, simple as. owen did something for the news of the world, but what I still dont know, but got the permission of the club, and the NOTW is NOT the Sun, like The Sunday Mirror isnt the Mirror, although its still ****e.

Too many people are trying to deflect it onto his youthful naivety and manipulation by agents, sure they had an influence, but have you all forgotten that people do TALK.

Wayne Rooney goes to al' fella and says, "Dad, I am gonna sign a deal with the Sun, OK?"

His al'fella should go "You're ******* mad lad, I forbid it, the **** you are gonna get from BLUES and REDS will be unbelievable, they are scum the Sun, dont do it"

So dont tell me his family couldnt have said that, cos its BS, they just let him do it, so live with the consequences, like Souness, he will always be knownas a sell out, money grabbing bastard, when in reality, he should be remembered for being one of Liverpool's finest ever midfielders.

[Stevedox]

Mate, a Liverpool player wouldnt do it, simple as. owen did something for the news of the world, but what I still dont know, but got the permission of the club, and the NOTW is NOT the Sun, like The Sunday Mirror isnt the Mirror, although its still ****e.

Too many people are trying to deflect it onto his youthful naivety and manipulation by agents, sure they had an influence, but have you all forgotten that people do TALK.

Wayne Rooney goes to al' fella and says, "Dad, I am gonna sign a deal with the Sun, OK?"

His al'fella should go "You're ******* mad lad, I forbid it, the **** you are gonna get from BLUES and REDS will be unbelievable, they are scum the Sun, dont do it"

So dont tell me his family couldnt have said that, cos its BS, they just let him do it, so live with the consequences, like Souness, he will always be knownas a sell out, money grabbing bastard, when in reality, he should be remembered for being one of Liverpool's finest ever midfielders.


But if they sat his family down and convinced him this is the right thing to do?

Come on, i've seen his family, it would take me ten minutes to convince the lot that the sky is green and the grass is blue, and they'd tell all their frineds and they'd believe it.

Good intentions IMO gone horribly wrong. Do you really think he'd go through all of this for the equvillent of a weeks wages?

Somebody told him lies, there's no other way.

[Shanks]

Mate, you cant be that thick, simple as. His family are born and bred scousers, they know what that papare did to this city, and there is no way they could have been manipulated to the point of thinking it was a good deed.

[Stevedox]

Mate, you cant be that thick, simple as. His family are born and bred scousers, they know what that papare did to this city, and there is no way they could have been manipulated to the point of thinking it was a good deed.

Well i suppose we'll never know, but i got a feeling that the papers manipulated this situation and Rooney was the fool to be had. Like you say, they should know, and they probably did, so why do it? Why be hated by both tribes of merseyside? It doesn't add up.

Fair enough if he was offered £30m, but the figure would be around £50k max. Its all a bit fishy to me, and i think the poor lad is being used in a horrible way by the papers and by the Liverpool fans who want to vent their frustrations, and since its easier to target one man than a national paper, your using him for target practise.

[kew-al]

sorry guys, but that lad was born and bread in liverpool. he would have known. I am only a year older than him, and was very young at the time it happened, But I know about the ****e the wankers printed and hated them.
no excuse that hes not that bright, because he cant be that thick.
its not because he is a blue its because he is (supposed to be) a pure scouser

[Stevedox]

sorry guys, but that lad was born and bread in liverpool. he would have known. I am only a year older than him, and was very young at the time it happened, But I know about the ****e the wankers printed and hated them.
no excuse that hes not that bright, because he cant be that thick.
its not because he is a blue its because he is (supposed to be) a pure scouser

Obviously you's lot know a lot more about this situation than i do, in fact i had to make sure what it was that the Sun originally said just to make sure, but i can't believe he'd do it without the truth being twisted along the way. You've all said it yourselves. Someone has advised him to do it. The papers do not approach the players, they approach the agent, all deals go through him or tha agency.

Rooney in the end of the day doesn't have much say in that, he's looked after by a clan of ppl, and they must have thought it was a good idea, including Moyes & Everton, or they would have told him and his advisors that he can't do it, and that it would cause problems.

There are too many ppl protecting Wayne for Wayne to make his own decisions, his family even will have less say than these ppl. These plus the papers are the ones who arranged the deal, these are the ones to blame, half the time what is written in the papers about what a player say in a big interview doesn't even come out of the players mouth but his representitives that are doing the talking.

[Shanks]

Well i suppose we'll never know, but i got a feeling that the papers manipulated this situation and Rooney was the fool to be had. Like you say, they should know, and they probably did, so why do it? Why be hated by both tribes of merseyside? It doesn't add up.

Fair enough if he was offered £30m, but the figure would be around £50k max. Its all a bit fishy to me, and i think the poor lad is being used in a horrible way by the papers and by the Liverpool fans who want to vent their frustrations, and since its easier to target one man than a national paper, your using him for target practise.

Wrong mate, that paper has been buycotted in this city for 15 years and always will, so i think you will find we have been targeting the paper for years. Its nothing to do with him being a blue, or him being a scape goat.

Other stupid people in the city who have been seen with it, have been beaten up there and then for it, I have seen it. When the Sun was giving out those England flags for cars, not one was seen in Liverpool, and I heard that anyone who did have one, soon saw it snapped off and their car done, so dont say its about us trying to vent our anger on one boy now, cos we have been doing it for 15 years, pretty successfully.

[Stevedox]

Wrong mate, that paper has been buycotted in this city for 15 years and always will, so i think you will find we have been targeting the paper for years. Its nothing to do with him being a blue, or him being a scape goat.

Other stupid people in the city who have been seen with it, have been beaten up there and then for it, I have seen it. When the Sun was giving out those England flags for cars, not one was seen in Liverpool, and I heard that anyone who did have one, soon saw it snapped off and their car done, so dont say its about us trying to vent our anger on one boy now, cos we have been doing it for 15 years, pretty successfully.

Sad and pathetic, so the papers got it wrong that time but you go out and prove them right by doing stuff like that.

beaten someone up over a paper has to be the most stupid, fuked up thing in the world. Whoever does it is tit plain and simple. :rolleyes:

[kew-al]

see what you are sayin but they would have had to have spoke to rooney for something e.g. photos or just to let him know what they were doing. he should have kicked up a fuss and said no, then reds fans would have a lot of respect for him.

Instead, for whatever reason, he has let his agents use his name/face in a paper that hurt a lot of scousers.

[Stevedox]

see what you are sayin but they would have had to have spoke to rooney for something e.g. photos or just to let him know what they were doing. he should have kicked up a fuss and said no, then reds fans would have a lot of respect for him.

Instead, for whatever reason, he has let his agents use his name/face in a paper that hurt a lot of scousers.

Don't think he lets them, they do it. We all know what buggers agents are.

[kew-al]

wow wow wow, thought I replied before this

Sad and pathetic, so the papers got it wrong that time but you go out and prove them right by doing stuff like that.

beaten someone up over a paper has to be the most stupid, fuked up thing in the world. Whoever does it is tit plain and simple.

Dont agree with ya there.

that paper and readers that provide them with profits/funds to carry on printing ****e, desearve everythin they get.

what that bastard paper did to the people of liverpool and others that suffered was a disgrace.
the people that buy the paper and provide the twats with funds/profits so that the liars get rich also desearve a crack

[Stevedox]

wow wow wow, thought I replied before this



Dont agree with ya there.

that paper and readers that provide them with profits/funds to carry on printing ****e, desearve everythin they get.

what that bastard paper did to the people of liverpool and others that suffered was a disgrace.
the people that buy the paper and provide the twats with funds/profits so that the liars get rich also desearve a crack

Not at all. Coz u buy a certain paper means you shud be beaten up? FFS, thats fuking out of order.

Its like saying, if u go to McD's then am gonna kill you.

SAD SAD SAD SAD SAD.

And anyone who thinks so is just as bad as those who do it, sorry bud, but thats a very fuked up opinion your carrying there.

[Shanks]

Sad and pathetic, so the papers got it wrong that time but you go out and prove them right by doing stuff like that.

beaten someone up over a paper has to be the most stupid, fuked up thing in the world. Whoever does it is tit plain and simple. :rolleyes:

******* sad and pathetic, sad and pathetic, you obviously know nothing about what they did steve, as you have basically admitted already so dont even go to sad and pathetic.

Somebody getting beaten up over reading a paper that did what it did, isnt the same as supposedly "urinating on police men whilst they were giving the kiss of life" and "picking the pockets of dead fans", so dont ever dare to try and compare it.

Your barking up the wrong tree, and yopu know nothing, not one iota of what went on,so dont ever try and take the moral high ground with me over this.

You dont know just how high emotions ran. It ****ed people up. I have known people commit suicide cos of what happened that day what they saw, and what they read, with THAT paper trying trying to blame us. It had a knock on effect with everybody there, so someone getting slap in the street for reading it doesnt even compare.

I know people no who are still ****ed up by it, who wont go near a game again, and you even having the audacity to try and say that someone getting a slap in the street for reading it proves there lies right, puts you in the same boat as them.

Tell me, how many people get into fights in cities of a night, cos maybe someone looked at thier bird the wrong way. Or how many people get banged at footy matches for not supporting the right team. How many fights have you yopurself had over trivial things?? Does that mean you could/or did crushed your own fans to death on purpose, urinated on them and people trying to save them, and robbed their lifeless bodies. No it doesnt, not one bit.

You flew off the handle (one of many occasions on this site) calling everyone wankers the other night just cos people accused ticcan of cheating in a ****ty little member vs member game on an internet forum, but I suppose that ok in your eyes. its just when 96 peope are killed and a paper makes up scandalous lies about the friends of these 96, making an already impossible grieving process worse, that its not ok to fly off the handle and be a bit rah.

******* hypocrite, its not so long ago you were threatening Tirkish people on here over another football tragedy. I thought better of you Steve.

[Stevedox]

******* sad and pathetic, sad and pathetic, you obviously know nothing about what they did steve, as you have basically admitted already so dont even go to sad and pathetic.

Somebody getting beaten up over reading a paper that did what it did, isnt the same as supposedly "urinating on police men whilst they were giving the kiss of life" and "picking the pockets of dead fans", so dont ever dare to try and compare it.

Your barking up the wrong tree, and yopu know nothing, not one iota of what went on,so dont ever try and take the moral high ground with me over this.

You dont know just how high emotions ran. It ****ed people up. I have known people commit suicide cos of what happened that day what they saw, and what they read, with THAT paper trying trying to blame us. It had a knock on effect with everybody there, so someone getting slap in the street for reading it doesnt even compare.

I know people no who are still ****ed up by it, who wont go near a game again, and you even having the audacity to try and say that someone getting a slap in the street for reading it proves there lies right, puts you in the same boat as them.

Tell me, how many people get into fights in cities of a night, cos maybe someone looked at thier bird the wrong way. Or how many people get banged at footy matches for not supporting the right team. How many fights have you yopurself had over trivial things?? Does that mean you could/or did crushed your own fans to death on purpose, urinated on them and people trying to save them, and robbed their lifeless bodies. No it doesnt, not one bit.

You flew off the handle (one of many occasions on this site) calling everyone wankers the other night just cos people accused ticcan of cheating in a ****ty little member vs member game on an internet forum, but I suppose that ok in your eyes. its just when 96 peope are killed and a paper makes up scandalous lies about the friends of these 96, making an already impossible grieving process worse, that its not ok to fly off the handle and be a bit rah.

******* hypocrite, its not so long ago you were threatening Tirkish people on here over another football tragedy. I thought better of you Steve.

Well nice to see the voice of reason coming out to play.

I'm 100% behind your hatered for the paper i really am, but that does not give you the right to go around hitting ppl coz they read a certain newspaper. I stand by what i say, its sad and pathetic someone could even think about doing that. My grandad reads the Sun, you gonna go hit him for it big shot?


:nono

[Shanks]

Well nice to see the voice of reason coming out to play.

I'm 100% behind your hatered for the paper i really am, but that does not give you the right to go around hitting ppl coz they read a certain newspaper. I stand by what i say, its sad and pathetic someone could even think about doing that. My grandad reads the Sun, you gonna go hit him for it big shot?


:nono


was it me who has hit anyone for reading it?

As I said, ******* hypocrite.

[Stevedox]

was it me who has hit anyone for reading it?

As I said, ******* hypocrite.

But you back the ppl for doing it, same as.

So if me grandad (or any old man) was sitting there reading his sun, and a bunch lad liverpool scallies walked up and kicked the ****e outta him you wouldn't mind?

Same as saying i don't go mugging old ppl, but i don't mind those who do.

It's a crime, and it puts the ppl of Liverpool in a bad light from where i stand.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and the Chronicle had siad those things, yes, i'd boycott it, yes i may protest outside the offices, but no, i wouldn't go clobber someone who's reading it.

And the reason i kicked off at the Turks was they agreed that the Leeds fans should have been stabbed, and they said if they were there they'd do the same. Totally different senario so less of the hypocrite ****e.

[Fowksee]

This is a delicate situation, so i'll try and be a tactful as I can.

There is no way in the world that you can justify beating someone up over a certain paper they may be carrying under their arm. I can understand the reason for people boycotting the sun, and thats fair enough.

But imagine if I was walking through Liverpool with a copy, completely unaware of what the feelings towards the paper were, you saying id get done in for it?! In that way you are being just as bad as the paper itself.

I could understand in the immediate aftermath of the event someone doing it, and even its inexcusable. but we are talking 15 years down the line now, isn't time supposed to be a healer?

For example i am not emotionally affected by the Munich Air Crash, I know all about it, but wouldnt be as emotional as someone who was around at the time and was witnessing the pain and suffering that went on.

Im afraid it is sad and pathetic that pepole are going round battering people for reading the sun. What good do you think it will do?

[Stevedox]

This is a delicate situation, so i'll try and be a tactful as I can.

There is no way in the world that you can justify beating someone up over a certain paper they may be carrying under their arm. I can understand the reason for people boycotting the sun, and thats fair enough.

But imagine if I was walking through Liverpool with a copy, completely unaware of what the feelings towards the paper were, you saying id get done in for it?! In that way you are being just as bad as the paper itself.

I could understand in the immediate aftermath of the event someone doing it, and even its inexcusable. but we are talking 15 years down the line now, isn't time supposed to be a healer?

For example i am not emotionally affected by the Munich Air Crash, I know all about it, but wouldnt be as emotional as someone who was around at the time and was witnessing the pain and suffering that went on.

Im afraid it is sad and pathetic that pepole are going round battering people for reading the sun. What good do you think it will do?


100% agreed. :clap

I didn't know the true hatered for the paper until this thread and i may may not of (dont actually buy newspaper anyway) be walking round Liverpool without a clue.

Capital of culture and thats how you treat ppl?

What if some Jap tourist was walking with the paper, he'd have no idea of the implications but yet by Shanks law its ok to kick the crap outta him for it.

[kew-al]

Not at all. Coz u buy a certain paper means you shud be beaten up? FFS, thats fuking out of order.
Its like saying, if u go to McD's then am gonna kill you.

SAD SAD SAD SAD SAD.

And anyone who thinks so is just as bad as those who do it, sorry bud, but thats a very fuked up opinion your carrying there.

that certain paper said some pretty ****ty lies when the timming could not have been worse. not only did families and friends have to endure the pain and heart ache of losing a loved one, they also had to put up with the humility that some people in the country were pointing the figure at them thanks to that ****e paper.

fuked up? what about the people who give money and pay the wages of the scum that wrote that filth?
why should some people be forgiven for buying the ****e because wayne rooney wrote in it?

[Stevedox]

that certain paper said some pretty ****ty lies when the timming could not have been worse. not only did families and friends have to endure the pain and heart ache of losing a loved one, they also had to put up with the humility that some people in the country were pointing the figure at them thanks to that ****e paper.

fuked up? what about the people who give money and pay the wages of the scum that wrote that filth?
why should some people be forgiven for buying the ****e because wayne rooney wrote in it?

Your arguing a totally different point.

I agree with what your saying, just beating someone up for reading a newspaper is barbaric. How far should it go? Till someone gets killed? Will that make it better known you's have killed someone who reads the Sun?

[Fowksee]

fuked up? what about the people who give money and pay the wages of the scum that wrote that filth?
why should some people be forgiven for buying the ****e because wayne rooney wrote in it?

I for one buy the sun now and again, not for its content, just something easy to read on my dinner. I didnt know what had gone on, so answer me this, if I was walking through the 'capital of culture' with a sun in my hand, I would get beaten up for it??

And you wonder why scousers get stereotyped :rolleyes:

Capital of Culture? more like Capital of Vultures.

[kew-al]

Your arguing a totally different point.

my computer is super slow today.

its commen knowledge in Liverpool not to buy/sell the scum. what that paper did was inexcusable. and they have not been punished for it. I have not hit any1 about it, but put yourself in the place of some1 who lost some1 really close and had to live through the pain while a paper made up lies so that they could sell their goods. I could understand them gettin wound up

tell me, if I sat at old trafford/ st james park with a city/ sunderland shirt on, would I get beaten up? for wearing a shirt that belongs to the team I support?

[Shanks]

I never said I condone it, at all, but you dont understand the emotions of some people.

Steve, I said you are a hypocrite cos you are spouting about self restraint, but would do well to exercise it yourself, and in your case its over an internet forum, not the fact that 96 lives were taken away.

I love the way the capital of culture an scouse stereotypes came in, for a start, its not like the whole city who atack people, it's certain individulas who feel compelled to do that, and that comes down to the individual themselves. How do we know that the person who attacks somebody wasnt a member of one of the families who lost somebody, whose emotions are stilll runninh high.

God this jealousy of capital of culture runs so deep, get over it.

Fact is, most of you know nothing about it. No its not right to attack somebody, but I never condoned it and you dont know the individual and the individuals circumstances.

But as I said, people need to think before mthey speak on here, cos a lot of hypocrisy is being spouted.

This city will never forgive that paper, and most of you know nothing about the emotions of those days... yet how that relates back to capital of culture, god only knows. So some people like to resort to violence, its the same in EVEry city, and Liverpool certainly aint the worst.

[Fowksee]

tell me, if I sat at old trafford/ st james park with a city/ sunderland shirt on, would I get beaten up? for wearing a shirt that belongs to the team I support?

Totally different, if you were sat in our end then you probably would, but that would be your choice.

[red4eva]

God this jealousy of capital of culture runs so deep, get over it. Lol, jealous of the British Empire? :wacko:

[Stevedox]

I never said I condone it, at all, but you dont understand the emotions of some people.

Steve, I said you are a hypocrite cos you are spouting about self restraint, but would do well to exercise it yourself, and in your case its over an internet forum, not the fact that 96 lives were taken away.

I love the way the capital of culture an scouse stereotypes came in, for a start, its not like the whole city who atack people, it's certain individulas who feel compelled to do that, and that comes down to the individual themselves. How do we know that the person who attacks somebody wasnt a member of one of the families who lost somebody, whose emotions are stilll runninh high.

God this jealousy of capital of culture runs so deep, get over it.

Fact is, most of you know nothing about it. No its not right to attack somebody, but I never condoned it and you dont know the individual and the individuals circumstances.

But as I said, people need to think before mthey speak on here, cos a lot of hypocrisy is being spouted.

This city will never forgive that paper, and most of you know nothing about the emotions of those days... yet how that relates back to capital of culture, god only knows. So some people like to resort to violence, its the same in EVEry city, and Liverpool certainly aint the worst.

Having a go at someone coz they said summit on there internet is totally different compared to actualy bodily violence. I restrain myself from lots of situations out there, more than most, coz i know what am like.

On here some fecker gives me lip, i'll give it back, or i can argue with a person known in the back of my mind am not gonna fly off the handle and hit them. Ppl get hit off me coz they deserve it, not coz they read a paper that i hate. I don't go round bashing mackems coz i hate Sunderland, i may hit a mackem if he's a cheeky twat or he's looking for trouble, but that would also be the same for a toon fan.

I was in South Shields a few weeks ago drinking with me m8's, its full of mackems, and not once did we get into fights or trouble. Why? Coz in the end of the day its only football and we can restrain ourselves, so much so we went to two bars with a group of mackem lads.

Your situation is very much different and isnt about football anymore. But they people who read the Sun are innocent people, most of the would not have a clue for Liverpools hatered for it. But that does not give anyone the right to go out and hit someone, just coz the read a paper ffs.

Everything else i agree on, from top to bottom, but that is just plain silly and there is no logic or thought involved in such actions. Am glad to here yourself saying that you wouldn't do such things, but in my eyes backing it is as just as bad.

Do you think you will revenge the deaths of those ppl? Revenge the families by hitting, hurting or even to an extreme killing ppl who read the sun?

[ada]

I'm never going to buy the sun and what they printed about the pool fans is one of the main reasons. Well I lie, the main reason is it's crap anyway.

[kew-al]

Totally different, if you were sat in our end then you probably would, but that would be your choice.

What if I was a neutral?

[Shanks]

Having a go at someone coz they said summit on there internet is totally different compared to actualy bodily violence. I restrain myself from lots of situations out there, more than most, coz i know what am like.

On here some fecker gives me lip, i'll give it back, or i can argue with a person known in the back of my mind am not gonna fly off the handle and hit them. Ppl get hit off me coz they deserve it, not coz they read a paper that i hate. I don't go round bashing mackems coz i hate Sunderland, i may hit a mackem if he's a cheeky twat or he's looking for trouble, but that would also be the same for a toon fan.
I was in South Shields a few weeks ago drinking with me m8's, its full of mackems, and not once did we get into fights or trouble. Why? Coz in the end of the day its only football and we can restrain ourselves, so much so we went to two bars with a group of mackem lads.

Your situation is very much different and isnt about football anymore. But they people who read the Sun are innocent people, most of the would not have a clue for Liverpools hatered for it. But that does not give anyone the right to go out and hit someone, just coz the read a paper ffs.

Everything else i agree on, from top to bottom, but that is just plain silly and there is no logic or thought involved in such actions. Am glad to here yourself saying that you wouldn't do such things, but in my eyes backing it is as just as bad.

Do you think you will revenge the deaths of those ppl? Revenge the families by hitting, hurting or even to an extreme killing ppl who read the sun?

Magnify that by about 1,000 and you get the reasons some people fly off the handle when they see people reading the Sun. As I said its down to the individual and you get people who react like that simple as, react with violence is what they know. Every city has them and to say Liverpool is alone in this, or even the worst for it, cos it isnt, is complete bollocks, but then some people on here have to resort to old stereotypes to try and qualify their points. Problem is, in reality, its bollocks, Liverpool has moved on from the old stereotypes...and its not just me saying it, its official, laugh about, try and put it down, try and deny it if you will, but facts speak for themselves.

One thing we will never move on from though is the what that papare said about Hillsborough, understand it if you can......if not, dont insult us who went through it.

[Stevedox]

Magnify that by about 1,000 and you get the reasons some people fly off the handle when they see people reading the Sun. As I said its down to the individual and you get people who react like that simple as, react with violence is what they know. Every city has them and to say Liverpool is alone in this, or even the worst for it, cos it isnt, is complete bollocks, but then some people on here have to resort to old stereotypes to try and qualify their points. Problem is, in reality, its bollocks, Liverpool has moved on from the old stereotypes...and its not just me saying it, its official, laugh about, try and put it down, try and deny it if you will, but facts speak for themselves.

One thing we will never move on from though is the what that papare said about Hillsborough, understand it if you can......if not, dont insult us who went through it.

Jesus christ Shanks the last thing i've tried to do is insult you, i've been very fair in this topic yet you the one who chooses to do the insulting.

How many ******* times do i have to say it, do you even read my posts? I'M 100% BEHIND YOU on ya hatered for the paper, i just think that beating ppl up for reading it is a step too far.

[Shanks]

Jesus christ Shanks the last thing i've tried to do is insult you, i've been very fair in this topic yet you the one who chooses to do the insulting.

How many ******* times do i have to say it, do you even read my posts? I'M 100% BEHIND YOU on ya hatered for the paper, i just think that beating ppl up for reading it is a step too far.

I aint insulting you mate, I have called you a hypocrite for some of the things you said, but kets be honest, by what goes on on here lately, that aint an insult.

Let me clear this up and put a different spin on it, ,aybe something I should have done in the first place. The person who was attacked and threatened was a Liverpool fan, a woolyback, and it was on one of the coaches on the way to an away game. This might sound like me changing my story, but its the truth. The only reason i said it was on the street in the first place was cos I knew the **** Liverpool fans would get. But we have already had that **** now, so it doesnt make any difference.

This doesnt now mean it should be condoned, but look at it this way. How stupid can you be to get on a liverpool away day coach, especially the ones we go on, with a copy of that paper and then read it in front of everyone. I know for a fact, lads that are on those coaches who were at Hillsborough. Someone seen it, then everyone saw it, and the next thing he got a frew digs and told not to get on the coach on the way home.

Now as I said, look at it how you will, but i thought I better put a true spin on the story as the other way is offensive to people of Liverpool. This LIVERPOOL fan should know better, no doubt about it, how stupid can you be, getting on an away day coach with THAT paper. But as I said, I needed to mention the true aspect of the story after reading the other posts, cos peoplewere havinga go at the people of Liverpool for attacking people for reading it in the street, and that never happened. i dont know, maybe it has, but I havent seen it, basically cos i dont see hardly ANYONE with that paper.

But when the city was getting **** from Foulksey and stuff, thats when I had to draw the line. Every city has its violence and as I saisd, Liverpool ISNT the worst for it, but as I said, the attack never happened in the street, it was onnan away coach, but I didnt want to say that at first cos I knew the **** Liverpool fans would get. However, you know that certaijn coaches carry certain people, who like to fight, every team has them, and the lad reading that paper got it. And I know I am in danger of getting more **** here, but IMO, he probs deserved it, cos you simply cant be that stupid, knowing that people who were at Hillsborough, people who lost at Hillsborough, are on those coaches, plus you immediately stir the emotions and offend every fan on there. And in this case, he cant plead ignorance cos there is no way they wouldnt have known what has gone on.

Like I said, it happened, but it doesnt make the aggresors capapble of "Pissing on the police giving kiss of life or be able to rob the dead" Thats what i objected to in the thread moree thasn anything, thatsn what angered me, cos if you say that, it means any people who ever fight or have fought, or hit anyone could be capable of it.

Everyone knows the paper printed scandalous lies, and they have to suffer that for evermore, and no hollow apology from them will EVER, EVER, EVER change that.

[Magic_H]

What the Sun said 15 years ago

Owen Gibson, chief media reporter [The Guardian]
Wednesday July 7, 2004

It was more than 15 years ago and still some shops boycott the Sun - such was the calamitous affect of the Sun's front page claims that Liverpool fans urinated on police, pick-pocketed dead victims and prevented brave PCs of giving the kiss of life to some of the victims of Hillsborough.

And although the editor at the time, Kelvin MacKenzie, later apologised, there will never be any room for the Sun in some Liverpudlian households ever again.

It all started on the Wednesday following the Hillsborough disaster in April 1989, when MacKenzie was about to make what he later described as a "fundamental mistake".

According to Peter Chippindale and Chris Horrie in their definitive history Stick it Up Your Punter - the Rise and Fall of the Sun, MacKenzie spent an unusual amount of time deliberating over the fateful headline for that day's paper.

"MacKenzie then did an enormously uncharacteristic thing. He sat for fully half an hour thinking about the front page layout."

According to the book he pondered two headlines, one that was rejected reading "You Scum", and the one that was eventually used - and was to prove the biggest disaster for the paper's reputation and sales: "The Truth".

A team of about 18 journalists and photographers had been send to cover the story, and although reporter Harry Arnold sought out MacKenzie to caution against reporting allegations as truth, MacKenzie pressed on.

Having decided to lay the blame on the fans' doorsteps, there was no stopping him.

Under the headline "The Truth" there were three subheadings:

Some fans picked pockets of victims
Some fans urinated on the brave cops
Some fans beat up PCs giving the kiss of life

The story read as follows: "Drunken Liverpool fans viciously attacked rescue workers as they tried to revive victims of the Hillsborough soccer disaster, it was revealed last night.

"Police officers, firemen and ambulance crew were punched, kicked and urinated upon by a hooligan element in the crowd.

"Some thugs rifled the pockets of injured fans as they were stretched out unconscious on the pitch.

"Sheffield MP Irvine Patnick revealed that in one shameful episode a gang of Liverpool fans noticed that the blouse of a girl trampled to death had risen above her breasts.

"As a policeman struggled in vain to revive her, the mob jeered: 'Throw her up here and we will **** her'"

The story went on: "One furious policeman who witnessed Saturday's carnage stormed: 'As we struggled in appalling conditions to save lives, fans standing further up the terrace were openly urinating on us and the bodies of the dead."

A 'high-ranking' police officer was quoted as saying: "The fans were just acting like animals. My men faced a double hell - the disaster and the fury of the fans who attacked us."

Kenny Dalglish, then Liverpool manager, later addressed the story in his autobiography:

"When the Sun came out with the story about Liverpool fans being drunk and unruly underneath a headline 'The Truth,' the reaction on Merseyside was one of complete outrage. Newsagents stopped stocking the Sun. People wouldn't mention its name. They were burning copies of it. Anyone representing the Sun was abused.

"Sun reporters and photographers would lie, telling people they worked for the Liverpool Post and Echo. There was a lot of harassment of them because of what had been written. The Star had gone a bit strong as well, but they apologised the next day. They knew the story had no foundation. Kelvin MacKenzie, the Sun's editor, even called me up.

"'How can we correct the situation?" he said.

"'You know that big headline - 'The Truth',' I replied. 'All you have to do is put 'We lied' in the same size. Then you might be all right.'

"Mackenzie said: 'I cannot do that.'

"'Well,' I replied, 'I cannot help you then.'

"That was it. I put the phone down. Merseysiders were outraged by the Sun. A great many still are."

It was four years later that the then publicity-averse Kelvin MacKenzie went public for the first time about the calamitous decision to call Liverpudlians liars and thieves who preyed off the dying and dead.

"I regret Hillsborough," he said. "It was a fundamental mistake. The mistake was I believed what an MP said. It was a Tory MP. If he had not said it and the chief superintendent had not agreed with it, we would not have gone with it," he told the Commons national heritage committee in January, 1993.

However, the Hillsborough survivors' group felt his words amounted to a less than sufficient apology........................................... .................................................


Sorry to drag this up again, but i hadnt been online for a few days, and for people who dont understand the feelings that paper still has on merseyside, the above article explains why.

Whilst I think Shanks words about sun readers in liverpool being beaten up maybe an exaggeration(it may have happened to somebody but its isnt the common occurance), If a liverpool fan seen another liverpool fan reading it, they would pass comment to that person. I wouldnt even let my lad buy it in the summer for the free euro 2004 panini stickers book. I gave him the £1 to buy the book itself out of principle.

Most scousers, even the blue half, wouldnt even allow the paper in their house.

As for rooney, most dont blame him, most blame his advisors, who have hatched a cunning plot to drive a wedge between him and the everton supporters. Agreeing to sell his story to the hated sun, is just part of that.

[Shanks]

What the Sun said 15 years ago

Owen Gibson, chief media reporter [The Guardian]
Wednesday July 7, 2004

It was more than 15 years ago and still some shops boycott the Sun - such was the calamitous affect of the Sun's front page claims that Liverpool fans urinated on police, pick-pocketed dead victims and prevented brave PCs of giving the kiss of life to some of the victims of Hillsborough.

And although the editor at the time, Kelvin MacKenzie, later apologised, there will never be any room for the Sun in some Liverpudlian households ever again.

It all started on the Wednesday following the Hillsborough disaster in April 1989, when MacKenzie was about to make what he later described as a "fundamental mistake".

According to Peter Chippindale and Chris Horrie in their definitive history Stick it Up Your Punter - the Rise and Fall of the Sun, MacKenzie spent an unusual amount of time deliberating over the fateful headline for that day's paper.

"MacKenzie then did an enormously uncharacteristic thing. He sat for fully half an hour thinking about the front page layout."

According to the book he pondered two headlines, one that was rejected reading "You Scum", and the one that was eventually used - and was to prove the biggest disaster for the paper's reputation and sales: "The Truth".

A team of about 18 journalists and photographers had been send to cover the story, and although reporter Harry Arnold sought out MacKenzie to caution against reporting allegations as truth, MacKenzie pressed on.

Having decided to lay the blame on the fans' doorsteps, there was no stopping him.

Under the headline "The Truth" there were three subheadings:

Some fans picked pockets of victims
Some fans urinated on the brave cops
Some fans beat up PCs giving the kiss of life

The story read as follows: "Drunken Liverpool fans viciously attacked rescue workers as they tried to revive victims of the Hillsborough soccer disaster, it was revealed last night.

"Police officers, firemen and ambulance crew were punched, kicked and urinated upon by a hooligan element in the crowd.

"Some thugs rifled the pockets of injured fans as they were stretched out unconscious on the pitch.

"Sheffield MP Irvine Patnick revealed that in one shameful episode a gang of Liverpool fans noticed that the blouse of a girl trampled to death had risen above her breasts.

"As a policeman struggled in vain to revive her, the mob jeered: 'Throw her up here and we will **** her'"

The story went on: "One furious policeman who witnessed Saturday's carnage stormed: 'As we struggled in appalling conditions to save lives, fans standing further up the terrace were openly urinating on us and the bodies of the dead."

A 'high-ranking' police officer was quoted as saying: "The fans were just acting like animals. My men faced a double hell - the disaster and the fury of the fans who attacked us."

Kenny Dalglish, then Liverpool manager, later addressed the story in his autobiography:

"When the Sun came out with the story about Liverpool fans being drunk and unruly underneath a headline 'The Truth,' the reaction on Merseyside was one of complete outrage. Newsagents stopped stocking the Sun. People wouldn't mention its name. They were burning copies of it. Anyone representing the Sun was abused.

"Sun reporters and photographers would lie, telling people they worked for the Liverpool Post and Echo. There was a lot of harassment of them because of what had been written. The Star had gone a bit strong as well, but they apologised the next day. They knew the story had no foundation. Kelvin MacKenzie, the Sun's editor, even called me up.

"'How can we correct the situation?" he said.

"'You know that big headline - 'The Truth',' I replied. 'All you have to do is put 'We lied' in the same size. Then you might be all right.'

"Mackenzie said: 'I cannot do that.'

"'Well,' I replied, 'I cannot help you then.'

"That was it. I put the phone down. Merseysiders were outraged by the Sun. A great many still are."

It was four years later that the then publicity-averse Kelvin MacKenzie went public for the first time about the calamitous decision to call Liverpudlians liars and thieves who preyed off the dying and dead.

"I regret Hillsborough," he said. "It was a fundamental mistake. The mistake was I believed what an MP said. It was a Tory MP. If he had not said it and the chief superintendent had not agreed with it, we would not have gone with it," he told the Commons national heritage committee in January, 1993.

However, the Hillsborough survivors' group felt his words amounted to a less than sufficient apology........................................... .................................................


Sorry to drag this up again, but i hadnt been online for a few days, and for people who dont understand the feelings that paper still has on merseyside, the above article explains why.

Whilst I think Shanks words about sun readers in liverpool being beaten up maybe an exaggeration(it may have happened to somebody but its isnt the common occurance), If a liverpool fan seen another liverpool fan reading it, they would pass comment to that person. I wouldnt even let my lad buy it in the summer for the free euro 2004 panini stickers book. I gave him the £1 to buy the book itself out of principle.

Most scousers, even the blue half, wouldnt even allow the paper in their house.

As for rooney, most dont blame him, most blame his advisors, who have hatched a cunning plot to drive a wedge between him and the everton supporters. Agreeing to sell his story to the hated sun, is just part of that.

read my last response, the beating incident took place on happy als coaches on the way to the aways. i explained that, and why i never said that in the first place.

[Shanks]

Threads merged, no need for two seperate ones.

[The Ronaldo]

fu*k the s*n

[goose]

i am totally on shanks side, my uncle was at the hillsborough game and i hate the sun and i think the people of liverpool have every right to give pricks that read the sun a couple of digs. and stevedox don't get involved, you don't even support liverpool

[leeman]

its blamin the people of liverpool again!!!! some people cant forgive and move on!! f*ck off!!! i really hate that paper!! just look what it did to beckham!!! calls itself his official paper and then blames him for crimes against sport!! get away wayne, its gonna happen to u too

[mancboyhudson]

its blamin the people of liverpool again!!!! some people cant forgive and move on!! f*ck off!!! i really hate that paper!! just look what it did to beckham!!! calls itself his official paper and then blames him for crimes against sport!! get away wayne, its gonna happen to u too

You hate the paper yet an example is about what it did to beckham :laugh Thought you were a liverpool fan lad

[Shanks]

This is a letter by a Liverpool fan, sent to the S*n after there "apology". Sums it up superbly.

It took a lot of skill to paint yourselves, the people of Liverpool and Wayne Rooney and entourage in such a bad light, but you managed to do just that with your apology in your issue July 7th 2004.


There was so much wrong with your apology that you have somehow managed to alienate yourselves further from the people at whom the apology was targeted. Given that your stock in Liverpool was already rock bottom, that is quite an achievement.

What started out as a seemingly sincere and genuine apology ended up as a pathetic, excuse laden, snivelling piece of editorial that used a young boy as a shield and cited an uninvolved party as chief instigator in what you obviously feel is an unwarranted boycott of your paper.

"We cannot believe these protests properly represent the opinions of the majority of men and women in Liverpool", you state. I hate to disappoint you.

"Sadly for some people in the city of Liverpool, forgetting - never mind forgiving - is impossible", you exhorted. Correct on all counts. For if we forget our - sorry, your - mistakes, then what is to stop them being made again?

"We can understand the grief of those who lost loved ones at Hillsborough", you magnanimously concede, adding "but the words of other fans leave us in despair". You have no right to despair. The implication would seem to be that only those people who lost family or friends have any right to feel disgusted. That is simply untrue.

Your words at the time tarnished the memories of the dead. They tarnished the reputations of the survivors. And they tarnished the people of city. Many thousands went to Hillsborough from Liverpool. Many more thousands didn't. And yet their name, as much as anyone else's, were equally sullied by your incorrect report of "The Truth" in 1989. I am one of those people, and you will not stop me voicing my utter contempt for the way you portrayed my city and, by default, myself through lazy journalism.

Not content with refusing me my opinion, you then turn the apology into a sales pitch by informing us that "nearly all Liverpool born celebrities regularly talk to Britain's favourite daily newspaper". Just how crass and insensitive can you be? The people you are addressing are not interested in your celebrity scoops and your sales figures, they are interested in an apology. One which is rapidly becoming another kick in the teeth.

Don't let that stop you, though. By all means, put it down to a vendetta in the local media. Because let's face it, the people of Liverpool are stupid enough to forget the way your paper callously went to print with a factually incorrect story that made us out to be gravediggers.

The Daily Mirror does not need to remind us of the story. We already know. And The Mirror's "crude effort …to make commercial gain" would be no more crude than your increasingly horrible attempt at apologising. If indeed The Mirror was stirring the issue for this purpose. Which it wasn't.

I can understand you hoping "that the people of modern Liverpool, a city of spirit and sophistication, are not taken in". That might have another effect on your already pitiful sales figures in the city. Unfortunately for you, the people of Liverpool are not taken in by anybody about Hillsborough. We know what happened, and we know who said what.

And it will take more than signing Wayne Rooney up to sell his story to change our opinions. Do you think we are stupid? Obviously. Paul Stretford isn't though, is he? Wayne Rooney's agent moved swiftly to distance himself and his client from your apology and issued a statement claiming that it was made without his knowledge or approval.

To the cynical eye, it might appear that you've used Wayne Rooney to make commercial gain in a city that in lost circulation alone has cost you £55m. But of course, crude efforts to make commercial gain is the arena in which Trinity Mirror operates, isn't it? Or so you would have us believe. As I said, we are not stupid.

"The Sun of 2004 no more deserves to be hated in Merseyside than Wayne Rooney does". I can forgive Rooney, although he has been naïve in the extreme and his actions do him no favours. The Sun, however has had plenty of opportunity to redress the balance and has simply not done so.

I don't care how many of your staff were around in 1989. The public don't buy your staff, they buy The Sun. If I were to make a mistake in my work, I would be severely reprimanded if I answered a complaint with "well it's not my fault, it's a different department". If you work for The Sun, or indeed any company, then you carry its baggage.

And now that you know the severity of feeling and deep seated resentment that the people of Liverpool feel towards your paper, you simply cannot hold your hands up and say "it was the other guy's fault" and be absolved of blame. The Sun made the mistake. The Sun should apologise. And when I say "apologise" I mean "say sorry", on the front page, in letters as big as those that hollered the lies of "The Truth" to all and sundry in April 1989.

Burying it on page 8 and running a front page headline purporting to hate mobs hounding Wayne Rooney curries sympathy from those less informed, however. What a horrid bunch we scousers must be.

And then, just as it seems you can go no lower, you deliver the lowest of blows. "It is time to move on", you claim.

How dare you?

The people of Liverpool will decide when it is time to move on. No-one will tell them when it is time to move on. Do not presume to tell people when to stop feeling angry and above all, do not tell them when they should stop grieving. You are the last people to be afforded that right.

And so, I throw you a challenge. Print this letter, unedited and in its entirety, and answer my points as I have yours. Apologise unreservedly to the people of Liverpool - some of whom will be reading this on one of the many websites you could have lifted your quotes from when citing the "Hate Mob" that are purportedly haranguing Wayne Rooney - on the front page of your paper. Do not use it as a sales exercise. Do not use it as opportunity to lay blame. Simply apologise, cut your losses and walk away, and then we can all "move on", as you so tritely put it.

"Fifteen years is a long time", you rightly point out. I know. It didn't have to be that long, though. That was down to you. And we're still waiting.

[Stevedox]

i am totally on shanks side, my uncle was at the hillsborough game and i hate the sun and i think the people of liverpool have every right to give pricks that read the sun a couple of digs. and stevedox don't get involved, you don't even support liverpool

Who are you to tell me what to do you little 14 year old jumped up ****head.

[goose]

**** you who are you to even ask that question that? it is my opinion and i stand by it. get out of this thread noone wants you here. my uncle saw thousands of people die that day and you tell me i can't expres my views. **** off.

[Stevedox]

**** you who are you to even ask that question that? it is my opinion and i stand by it. get out of this thread noone wants you here. my uncle saw thousands of people die that day and you tell me i can't expres my views. **** off.

You fuking little twat, i never said you can't express your opinions, you said that to me you little fuker.

I merely told you not to tell me what to do. The Liverpool forum isn't exclusive to Liverpool fans ****head, everyone is allowed to come in here, so what you gonna do about it you little faggot?

Thousands of ppl? You are so full of ****e its unreal.

[goose]

y do u keep abusing me. i just posted this and expressed my views. anfd why do you always bring up my age? it doesn't matter what my age is.

[Shanks]

Can we calm down people please.

[Stevedox]

Can we calm down people please.

Its calm, its sorted, and its over.

Sorry Shanks & Goose, there i went again :(

[Shanks]

Its fine steve, you should never have been told you shouldnt be posting in here, cos thats rubbish, you can post were you like, with as much right as anyone, but then you did go ott, but hey, thats what used to be like, so I cant preach.

[kew-al]

This is a letter by a Liverpool fan, sent to the S*n after there "apology". Sums it up superbly.

It took a lot of skill to paint yourselves, the people of Liverpool and Wayne Rooney and entourage in such a bad light, but you managed to do just that with your apology in your issue July 7th 2004.


There was so much wrong with your apology that you have somehow managed to alienate yourselves further from the people at whom the apology was targeted. Given that your stock in Liverpool was already rock bottom, that is quite an achievement.

What started out as a seemingly sincere and genuine apology ended up as a pathetic, excuse laden, snivelling piece of editorial that used a young boy as a shield and cited an uninvolved party as chief instigator in what you obviously feel is an unwarranted boycott of your paper.

"We cannot believe these protests properly represent the opinions of the majority of men and women in Liverpool", you state. I hate to disappoint you.

"Sadly for some people in the city of Liverpool, forgetting - never mind forgiving - is impossible", you exhorted. Correct on all counts. For if we forget our - sorry, your - mistakes, then what is to stop them being made again?

"We can understand the grief of those who lost loved ones at Hillsborough", you magnanimously concede, adding "but the words of other fans leave us in despair". You have no right to despair. The implication would seem to be that only those people who lost family or friends have any right to feel disgusted. That is simply untrue.

Your words at the time tarnished the memories of the dead. They tarnished the reputations of the survivors. And they tarnished the people of city. Many thousands went to Hillsborough from Liverpool. Many more thousands didn't. And yet their name, as much as anyone else's, were equally sullied by your incorrect report of "The Truth" in 1989. I am one of those people, and you will not stop me voicing my utter contempt for the way you portrayed my city and, by default, myself through lazy journalism.

Not content with refusing me my opinion, you then turn the apology into a sales pitch by informing us that "nearly all Liverpool born celebrities regularly talk to Britain's favourite daily newspaper". Just how crass and insensitive can you be? The people you are addressing are not interested in your celebrity scoops and your sales figures, they are interested in an apology. One which is rapidly becoming another kick in the teeth.

Don't let that stop you, though. By all means, put it down to a vendetta in the local media. Because let's face it, the people of Liverpool are stupid enough to forget the way your paper callously went to print with a factually incorrect story that made us out to be gravediggers.

The Daily Mirror does not need to remind us of the story. We already know. And The Mirror's "crude effort …to make commercial gain" would be no more crude than your increasingly horrible attempt at apologising. If indeed The Mirror was stirring the issue for this purpose. Which it wasn't.

I can understand you hoping "that the people of modern Liverpool, a city of spirit and sophistication, are not taken in". That might have another effect on your already pitiful sales figures in the city. Unfortunately for you, the people of Liverpool are not taken in by anybody about Hillsborough. We know what happened, and we know who said what.

And it will take more than signing Wayne Rooney up to sell his story to change our opinions. Do you think we are stupid? Obviously. Paul Stretford isn't though, is he? Wayne Rooney's agent moved swiftly to distance himself and his client from your apology and issued a statement claiming that it was made without his knowledge or approval.

To the cynical eye, it might appear that you've used Wayne Rooney to make commercial gain in a city that in lost circulation alone has cost you £55m. But of course, crude efforts to make commercial gain is the arena in which Trinity Mirror operates, isn't it? Or so you would have us believe. As I said, we are not stupid.

"The Sun of 2004 no more deserves to be hated in Merseyside than Wayne Rooney does". I can forgive Rooney, although he has been naïve in the extreme and his actions do him no favours. The Sun, however has had plenty of opportunity to redress the balance and has simply not done so.

I don't care how many of your staff were around in 1989. The public don't buy your staff, they buy The Sun. If I were to make a mistake in my work, I would be severely reprimanded if I answered a complaint with "well it's not my fault, it's a different department". If you work for The Sun, or indeed any company, then you carry its baggage.

And now that you know the severity of feeling and deep seated resentment that the people of Liverpool feel towards your paper, you simply cannot hold your hands up and say "it was the other guy's fault" and be absolved of blame. The Sun made the mistake. The Sun should apologise. And when I say "apologise" I mean "say sorry", on the front page, in letters as big as those that hollered the lies of "The Truth" to all and sundry in April 1989.

Burying it on page 8 and running a front page headline purporting to hate mobs hounding Wayne Rooney curries sympathy from those less informed, however. What a horrid bunch we scousers must be.

And then, just as it seems you can go no lower, you deliver the lowest of blows. "It is time to move on", you claim.

How dare you?

The people of Liverpool will decide when it is time to move on. No-one will tell them when it is time to move on. Do not presume to tell people when to stop feeling angry and above all, do not tell them when they should stop grieving. You are the last people to be afforded that right.

And so, I throw you a challenge. Print this letter, unedited and in its entirety, and answer my points as I have yours. Apologise unreservedly to the people of Liverpool - some of whom will be reading this on one of the many websites you could have lifted your quotes from when citing the "Hate Mob" that are purportedly haranguing Wayne Rooney - on the front page of your paper. Do not use it as a sales exercise. Do not use it as opportunity to lay blame. Simply apologise, cut your losses and walk away, and then we can all "move on", as you so tritely put it.

"Fifteen years is a long time", you rightly point out. I know. It didn't have to be that long, though. That was down to you. And we're still waiting.

__________________

:clap top letter like.

only thing that I dont agree on, is that even an apology like that wouldnt grant them my and my families forgiveness nor I bet a lot (if not all) of the people in liverpool.

[Shanks]

No, same here, they aint never getting it.

[goose]

sorry everyone about all the ranting and raving. I have been very stupis I apologise everyone.