Robert Green for England?

[Noy]

Well? Should he be given a shot??

[TazDevilED]

Oh most definately.
Can't do any worse than Carson did on his debut.

[intotheforest]

I am always baffled why he is overlooked although Capello says he picks his squads on form and 3 successive 4-0 defeats as the West Ham GK this month has hardly been favourable, hence why Capello overlooked him first time round. Fortunately injuries to Carson and Kirkland have enabled Green to come into the squad and prove he is up to the job on offer.

[Noy]

yeah admittedly I would like to put that week behind me because it really didn't show him at his best :P

But when he's playing well I definately think that he's got the potential to be one of, if the the, best in England

[TheChelseaBlues]

I think its time to start breaking in Joe Hart. You've got nothing to win until 2010 assuming England qualify. Hart will be 23 then I believe and have a few seasons of Prem. action under his belt. Cut your losses, get rid of everyone at GK over 25 as a full time #1.

[Fowksee]

^ Bit drastic there! :laugh

Hart, Foster and Carson are the future, let them battle it out.

[Overrated_Fool]

Oh most definately.
Can't do any worse than Carson did on his debut.

That was unnecessary to be honest. Carson is a class goalkeeper who had a nightmare debut, thats it really.

I do find it strange how Green doesnt even get a look in. Those 4-0 defeats aside, he's been superb this season.

[intotheforest]

I think its time to start breaking in Joe Hart. You've got nothing to win until 2010 assuming England qualify. Hart will be 23 then I believe and have a few seasons of Prem. action under his belt. Cut your losses, get rid of everyone at GK over 25 as a full time #1.

Good point actually. I think it'll more than likely occur towards the middle of next season. He has been promising for Man City all season, and although he looked abit shakey but he is now showing his true colours and I hink if he can keep up impressing he has a spot in the full NT. He has been keeping out Schmeichel and even Swedish #1 Issakson for a long time now and I have always thought he is the next England #1, not Carson, not Foster. If we got him into the setup in 6 months or so, come 2010 we could have a good GK on our hands who'd be ready and experienced enough in the Premiership with Man City, who by that time will be most definately playing UEFA Cup football too, and hopefully the NT set up, so he could be ready for WC2010.

[Da Fat P0rn Sta]

I think its time to start breaking in Joe Hart. You've got nothing to win until 2010 assuming England qualify. Hart will be 23 then I believe and have a few seasons of Prem. action under his belt. Cut your losses, get rid of everyone at GK over 25 as a full time #1.

Over 25? Christ that's drastic. You realise that James is 37 right? And most keepers will be around that age. That gives even 28 year olds a good 9 years

[TheChelseaBlues]

37? How many national team keepers start for their country unti they are 37? We got rid of Friedel and Keller before they hit 35 and they are both better than anyone England can turn to besides James on his day... maybe. Maybe we have a surplus of keepers but I'll put money on Tim Howard getting pushed out after 2010 in favor of our younger guys unless he dominates, which is possible because he is pure class IMO.

England aren't my team but behind the country I live in and the country of my heritage I will root for them every time and I would love to see this GK mess put to bed. It's pretty clear to me that its time to start rattling cages across the pond so why not just wipe the slate clean and start with the young guys? I don't know how tough your WCQ group is but why not start breaking in a young guy now who can be between the sticks for 10+ years. Hart is a great young GK IMO. I'm an advocate of throwing young players into the fire to test them out. If he turns out to be cr@p then you know now rather then later. And you're in the same boat you're in now anyway.

[TazDevilED]

Dino Zoff (born February 28, 1942) is an Italian former football goalkeeper and is the oldest winner ever of the World Cup, which he earned as captain of the Italian team in the 1982 tournament in Spain, at the age of 40.

Just to show that age has no barriers especially when it comes to goalkeepers.

[TheChelseaBlues]

Key portion of that, the oldest winner ever of the World Cup. It's not very common is it? Dino was also one of the best GKs ever. Surely there are exceptions to everything. Point is, do England have anyone back there you'd want to see starting until 40? doesn't seem like it. You could say the same about Maldini but he's also the exception. Maybe its something in the Italian water

[TazDevilED]

I do agree with bringing on the younger talent but surely friendlies are a great way of testing ALL the current keepers?
Green, Carson et all couldn't have done any worse (IMHO) than Calamity. He is a great club level keeper but seems to switch off at International level.
Maybe it's to do with his communication skills with his defense. They were all at sea on most set pieces and that is HIS job to co-ordinate.

[leeman]

you cant just strut in and coordinate a 'world-class' defence when you see them 3 days out of every 2 months. its a joint responsibility, and a defensive line leader from each of the two topteams in the country doesnt actually help IMHO

[-Orion-]

James is worthy of his place despite his age...he's only gotten better

As far as future prospects go, Robert Green is the new Paul Robinson...great to romanticize him now but he'll be everyone's worst enemy if and when he's given the spotlight, I'm sure of it...not though any fault of his own (no goalkeeper is perfect) but he is Robinson-like in his blunders, and if put in the same position as Robbo would end up the same way...that's my inkling

Kirkland is good but Foster is better... Carson is good and is being written off like crazy 'cuz of that moment against Croatia, which is why I hated it (for him) while loving it ('cuz I knew England would **** it all up despite being done innumerous favours)

Green for England? Nahhh...

[intotheforest]

James is worthy of his place despite his age...he's only gotten better

As far as future prospects go, Robert Green is the new Paul Robinson...great to romanticize him now but he'll be everyone's worst enemy if and when he's given the spotlight, I'm sure of it...not though any fault of his own (no goalkeeper is perfect) but he is Robinson-like in his blunders, and if put in the same position as Robbo would end up the same way...that's my inkling

Kirkland is good but Foster is better... Carson is good and is being written off like crazy 'cuz of that moment against Croatia, which is why I hated it (for him) while loving it ('cuz I knew England would **** it all up despite being done innumerous favours)

Green for England? Nahhh...

They are both 28 are Green and Robinson, Green is hardly the 'new' Paul Robinson

[mart]

If Foster can establish himself as number one with us (United) then he's proberly going to be in with the best shout for England number one in the future but for the time being i see no reason why James can't do it even with him being 37 it's hardly like he has to run for 90 minutes.

[Overrated_Fool]

James is worthy of his place despite his age...he's only gotten better

As far as future prospects go, Robert Green is the new Paul Robinson...great to romanticize him now but he'll be everyone's worst enemy if and when he's given the spotlight, I'm sure of it...not though any fault of his own (no goalkeeper is perfect) but he is Robinson-like in his blunders, and if put in the same position as Robbo would end up the same way...that's my inkling

Kirkland is good but Foster is better... Carson is good and is being written off like crazy 'cuz of that moment against Croatia, which is why I hated it (for him) while loving it ('cuz I knew England would **** it all up despite being done innumerous favours)

Green for England? Nahhh...

Green has a tendency to flap at crosses, but bias aside, thats probably the only major weakness he has. He's a better shotstopper than Robinson, has better reflexes.

He's by no means at the front of the pecking order, but I definately think he's better than Robinson.

[libertine]

We currently have a good crop of young keepers but keepers rarely peak before 28/29.

So we may have to wait a couple of years to find out if we have a gem hidden away. For the time being I would be trying to mix blooding one or two of them and playing David James. James is the best we have right now and regardless of his age he is in unbelievable shape and no reason we will see any real drop off in his play between now and 2010.

[Foley87]

not good enough and vastly overrated - doesnt talk enough to be a top international keeper

[-Orion-]

They are both 28 are Green and Robinson, Green is hardly the 'new' Paul Robinson

No one had heard of Robert Green until three years ago and he had no 'top level experience' as it were, and even now he's not played in Europe and his crowning achievement is playing for a mid-table Prem team

Paul Robinson, may God have mercy on his soul, made his name with Leeds (when they were good), in Europe, and has been playing at the top level for comfortably over five years...so there's a difference in development even if they are the same age

[TheChelseaBlues]

not good enough and vastly overrated - doesnt talk enough to be a top international keeper

Ha, of all the reasons to keep someone down, they don't talk enough... ha

[intotheforest]

No one had heard of Robert Green until three years ago and he had no 'top level experience' as it were, and even now he's not played in Europe and his crowning achievement is playing for a mid-table Prem team

Paul Robinson, may God have mercy on his soul, made his name with Leeds (when they were good), in Europe, and has been playing at the top level for comfortably over five years...so there's a difference in development even if they are the same age

I'm sorry mate bu I had heard of Robert Green waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before three years ago. Rob Green was always tipped to be the next England #1 even before Robinson, when he was Norwich GK. I fail to see how you think Green was a complete unkown 3 years ago because trust me mate many had heard of him before then, Norwich being in the PL ring any bells?

[-Orion-]

Norwich were awful in the PL, and yes YOU had heard of Robert Green, but we're not talking about YOU... On a GENERAL scale, compare where Paul Robinson was five years ago and where Robert Green was... One was touted as 'one to watch' and the other was out there thwarting Barcelona in Europe...big difference

[intotheforest]

Norwich were awful in the PL, and yes YOU had heard of Robert Green, but we're not talking about YOU... On a GENERAL scale, compare where Paul Robinson was five years ago and where Robert Green was... One was touted as 'one to watch' and the other was out there thwarting Barcelona in Europe...big difference

What aload of sh!t. Norwich were awful :laugh Wasn't that the season when they was level on points with the 3 teams above them going into their last game of the season? Oh yes it was. Yeah awful, as bad as Derby or Sunderland.

As for your other point I would put very good money I would put very good money on the fact that everyone had heard of Robert Green before 3 years ago. If I put up a thread in the premiership forum, a sh!tloadc would say they had heard of him, although I am not going to even bother because I ain't that desperate to prove a known point. Maybe following lower league football is required more before you make ridiculous statements, eh Orion?

[-Orion-]

There's no ridiculous statement... of course if you started a thread here people would have heard of Robert Green...this is a football forum, full of AVID football fans... You're not getting it

Three years ago, he was playing for a relegation battling side...three years ago (well, longer) Paul Robinson was playing in the Champions League, and playing well...so YES, Norwich were 'absolutely awful' IN THIS CONTEXT, being compared to CL football? There's nothing stupid about that... if you think there is any way whatsoever that the two standards can be compared then you are absolutely deluded

You need to read carefully and understand what's being said before you immediately take one side just for the sake of it... I understand you taking me up on my first comment about 'the new' this or that, because tru, there's like a few months age difference and I should have explained it wasn't really an age thing, but actual experience on certain levels...which plays a huge, huge part in the development of a player

Compare Manucho and Eduardo...same age... and for the sake of argument, let's say they were the same type of player...would it be wrong for me to say Manucho is the new Eduardo? Would Africans come here, insulted, saying that Manucho has devastating ability and is as old as Eduardo, and has been rated for as long as Eduardo, and therefore I should do my research on African football?

Haha, to that I'd say...sorry. No disrespect to the Angolan league, but it's just not as good as the Croatian league in which Eduardo has proven himself, so Manucho has a lot more developing to do compared to Eduardo to be considered in the same class, whether or not the potential is there or not

So if you take that example and apply it to these two, it's not unreasonable to suggest Robinson has two or three years' experience on Robert Green despite them being the same age... But if your supporting of Notts Forest has somehow deluded you into thinking Championship experience is in any way equatable with top half Premier League and European experience then fair enough, that's where we disagree

Thank you, and good night

[intotheforest]

There's no ridiculous statement... of course if you started a thread here people would have heard of Robert Green...this is a football forum, full of AVID football fans... You're not getting it

Ok so your saying your not an AVID fan then, because in your first statement as you have said avid fans would have heard of Rob Green before three years ago, you didn't so you aren't an avid fan of football. Your words, not mine.

Three years ago, he was playing for a relegation battling side...three years ago (well, longer) Paul Robinson was playing in the Champions League, and playing well...so YES, Norwich were 'absolutely awful' IN THIS CONTEXT, being compared to CL football? There's nothing stupid about that... if you think there is any way whatsoever that the two standards can be compared then you are absolutely deluded

:laugh and you call me deluded. Leeds got relegated the season before with Robinson as GK. Norwich who was 'Awful' as you put, Green didn't concede 77 in 36 games unlike Mr.Roinson in Leeds relegation season. But before your period kicks off again, you say CL football. This few years in which Robbo was playing CL was actually in the 2000/01, which was 4 years before Green made his premiership bow. A p!ss poor remark orion IN THIS CONTEXT. How can you compare a GK in the CL to a goalie who played in the PL 4 years later as Robinson had a mid table finish with Spurs. The answer is you can't. Experience yes but at the end of the day it was pure luck RObbo was called up, an injury to Martyn and he was thrown in at the deep end, he was soon taken out when Martyn was fit though and after that season Leeds never played CL football again. Robbo has learnt a hell of a lot more than Green true but he isn't a full CL experienced player as it was a couple of games end of for this time. I believe if Green was at Leeds, and RObbo was at Norwich the same would have happened all over again.

You need to read carefully and understand what's being said before you immediately take one side just for the sake of it... I understand you taking me up on my first comment about 'the new' this or that, because tru, there's like a few months age difference and I should have explained it wasn't really an age thing, but actual experience on certain levels...which plays a huge, huge part in the development of a player

I do know what being said hence why I'm replying to you :rolleyes: Stop trying to speak from a higher level, which a few other memebers touch upon, because in this thread you haven't been paying much attention to your points either or some made as you have touched upon, which I'll give you credit for.

Compare Manucho and Eduardo...same age... and for the sake of argument, let's say they were the same type of player...would it be wrong for me to say Manucho is the new Eduardo? Would Africans come here, insulted, saying that Manucho has devastating ability and is as old as Eduardo, and has been rated for as long as Eduardo, and therefore I should do my research on African football?



Haha, to that I'd say...sorry. No disrespect to the Angolan league, but it's just not as good as the Croatian league in which Eduardo has proven himself, so Manucho has a lot more developing to do compared to Eduardo to be considered in the same class, whether or not the potential is there or not

Well thats a shock you act like a know all in every other forum you post in, I'm suprised you ain't a know all in the angolan league either.


So if you take that example and apply it to these two, it's not unreasonable to suggest Robinson has two or three years' experience on Robert Green despite them being the same age... But if your supporting of Notts Forest has somehow deluded you into thinking Championship experience is in any way equatable with top half Premier League and European experience then fair enough, that's where we disagree


Oh right supporting Forest makes you deluded, thanks. I have said in none of the posts that Championship experience is the equivalent to PL/CL football. It was a game or 2 Robinson played, thats what you seem to NOT UNDERSTAND! I have explained this above. Green was still learning his trade as a 20 year old at Norwich, Robinson the same with Leeds, Robbo was relied upon and delivered but does one or two games give him 2 years on Green? No it doesn't. Its like saying Chris Eagles for example or someone of that level is more experienced than someone like Gareth Barry because he has played a CL game for a side in the top half of the PL. Now although Villa have become a top half team they haven't always been one as you should know. I know that is waaaaaaay to extreme and obviously not true, although in your case you'll probs think this.

Thank you, and good night

Well you posted this in the morning so it was hardly good night.

[-Orion-]

Sighhh...as this drags on you're picking more and more irrelevant arguments to deflect from the original point I made, which was a very simple one you seem to have 1) taken to heart for some reason and 2) taken to mean wayyyy more than it actually did

I'm an 'avid fan', thanks... I didn't say that I hadn't heard of Robert Green... I said nobody had heard of Robert Green...if you couldn't figure out that was rhetorical then what 'level' am I supposed to speak to you from? Think before you type

After that you basically proved my point...how can you compare them? You can't... as a kid, (yeah as a backup GK, so what) Robinson was doing far more than Green... he did far more than Green...and he was part of a **** team that got relegated but he was one of their best players, evidenced by him leaving as soon as everything went horribly wrong... since then he has played in Europe and played at the World Cup... I'm not saying he's great, but I'm saying he's being vastly undersold if you're putting a comparitively unproven Robert Green in the same boat as him

It's romantic, that's all it is... to go on about Green being so amazing when he hasn't actually done much of anything in the grand scheme of things...it's like people saying Theo Walcott is the answer to England's problems...yeah well, er, maybe...but right now, all that hype has only succeeded in hindering him

If Green was at Leeds, Robbo at Norwich? EXACTLY! Well said, you're proving my point...THEY ARE VERY MUCH THE SAME, but one had the 'luck' of playing for a 'bigger' club at the right time and thus got the vital experience...anybody would tell you up front that Robbo is a more experienced keeper than Green...the fact you're even taking my 'the new' comment SO literally is quite sad...it mean that he is very much like him (IMO) and that all he'll ever do is amount to the same type of player...what's wrong with that?! Nothing... He is behind in development, in stages of his career...so yeah, IMO, if he gets the call-up, he'll go the way of Robbo

I didn't say I don't 'know all' in the Angolan league, the whole scenario was made up - hypothetical - that said I don't know all about it, but I do know more than probably most here (from what I've seen) as there aren't any Africans here besides a few Egyptians and I, as some who have read my posts will know, am half African and do follow African football as well as the rest of the sport...big ******* deal

And supporting Forest does not make you deluded... I have no problem with Forest and they're one of my favourite lower league teams... I'd welcome them back to the top flight... I said IF supporting a team in a lower division has SOMEHOW made you deluded...not "it does make you deluded"...so don't go twisting ****... The Eagles example doesn't match up at alllllllll compared to, say, the Angola one I gave you which was perfectly reasonable, and all you could do was try and force a smartarse reply to it... Yeah, I'm not saying Robbo saw Leeds through to CL glory single-handedly, but he had that experience, plus Prem experience with Leeds, then all the years with Tottenham and England...and through all of that Green had what, a year and now coming up to two in the Premier League and the rest in the Championship, plus games with England u21s/Eng B etc? Not on the same level

And it was 'morning' but I hadn't slept, leave the smartarse replies alone already, it's not working for you

[intotheforest]

Sighhh...as this drags on you're picking more and more irrelevant arguments to deflect from the original point I made, which was a very simple one you seem to have 1) taken to heart for some reason and 2) taken to mean wayyyy more than it actually did

Irrelevant arguments but they are coming from your posts. Why would I make an argument for the sake of it? I ain't taking nothing to heart mate just touching on points that your saying in your 7868941964367646216386627637647 word posts that are being perseved.

I'm an 'avid fan', thanks... I didn't say that I hadn't heard of Robert Green... I said nobody had heard of Robert Green...if you couldn't figure out that was rhetorical then what 'level' am I supposed to speak to you from?

Ah trying to back track now because someone didn't call you an avid fan. It is clear mate from what you have posted you hadn't heard of Green until 3 years ago which is nothing to be ashamed of but you don't need to suddenly say ''coz.....i....have....heard...of....green...tho.. ..''. You haven't questioned it when I stated the fact before but obviously being questioned on something you said earlier, which seemed to rule you out being an avid fan hit a nerve. Big deal, Orion, its not like the SAS are going to come and kick your ass for it. Don't lie:nono

Think before you type

Ah thanks for the advice mate. As a reward for your kindness I'll give you some advice too. Here is a full stop . not this ......

Here is how you spell 'though' not 'tho'

and here is how you spell 'because', not 'coz'

Looking out for each other, I like it.


After that you basically proved my point...how can you compare them? You can't... as a kid, (yeah as a backup GK, so what) Robinson was doing far more than Green... he did far more than Green...and he was part of a **** team that got relegated but he was one of their best players, evidenced by him leaving as soon as everything went horribly wrong... since then he has played in Europe and played at the World Cup... I'm not saying he's great, but I'm saying he's being vastly undersold if you're putting a comparitively unproven Robert Green in the same boat as him


Oh here we go again the Norwich were sh!t argument. Mate if Norwich were sh!t so were the other 3 teams that was on the exact same points on the last day. Ok relegation sides are sh!t thats a fact that isn't to be denied, but I still think you are underselling Norwich as it was. I know what you are saying about Robbo and I can see the experience is vast but still Green is beter and more expeienced than you seem to believe, I mean playing in a lower lague is experience for as start.

If Green was at Leeds, Robbo at Norwich? EXACTLY! Well said, you're proving my point...THEY ARE VERY MUCH THE SAME, but one had the 'luck' of playing for a 'bigger' club at the right time and thus got the vital experience...anybody would tell you up front that Robbo is a more experienced keeper than Green...the fact you're even taking my 'the new' comment SO literally is quite sad...it mean that he is very much like him (IMO) and that all he'll ever do is amount to the same type of player...what's wrong with that?! Nothing... He is behind in development, in stages of his career...so yeah, IMO, if he gets the call-up, he'll go the way of Robbo

Glad we finally agree on something progress is being made.

I didn't say I don't 'know all' in the Angolan league, the whole scenario was made up - hypothetical - that said I don't know all about it, but I do know more than probably most here (from what I've seen) as there aren't any Africans here besides a few Egyptians and I, as some who have read my posts will know, am half African and do follow African football as well as the rest of the sport...big ******* deal

So you're basically a know all in African football compared to others on here. Why didn't you just say that?

And supporting Forest does not make you deluded... I have no problem with Forest and they're one of my favourite lower league teams... I'd welcome them back to the top flight... I said IF supporting a team in a lower division has SOMEHOW made you deluded...not "it does make you deluded"...so don't go twisting ****... The Eagles example doesn't match up at alllllllll compared to, say, the Angola one I gave you which was perfectly reasonable, and all you could do was try and force a smartarse reply to it... Yeah, I'm not saying Robbo saw Leeds through to CL glory single-handedly, but he had that experience, plus Prem experience with Leeds, then all the years with Tottenham and England...and through all of that Green had what, a year and now coming up to two in the Premier League and the rest in the Championship, plus games with England u21s/Eng B etc? Not on the same level

Nah you basically called all Forest fans deluded no going back. I might as well say all Real Madrid supporters are Glory hunters, but then that is something I'd see you post in the Barca forum, but only Barca fans put in that scenario. Think before you type


And it was 'morning' but I hadn't slept, leave the smartarse replies alone already, it's not working for you


Well they ain't worked for you in nearly 3000 posts mate, I think they are working Orion because why are tou replying if they ain't working??? Best leave the know-all, smartarse alone. OH NO HE'LL PUT ME ON HIS INFAMOUS IGNORE LIST FOR SAYING THAT!

[-Orion-]

I support Fulham...for a long time we were in the lower leagues and look like going back as we speak, why the hell would I have something against lower league teams or any team from there 'just because'? I dare to suggest a player who has spent his time in lower leagues isn't as experienced as a guy who has played his whole career more or less in the Prem, in Europe a bit and at major international tournaments? Grow up... Norwich were **** in comparison to the Spurs team Robbo played in, and even the Leeds team Robbo played in until they imploded...and he left straight after...don't take it as some slander on Norwich, Nigel Worthington would admit it as soon as me, it's a simple truth

The one bit you quoted and agreed with was the crux of my whole point...it's what I meant when I said what I did initially and nothing more: Same type of player, one had more luck than the other in what club he was with, so as a result the one that played at a higher level is more developed in terms of experience, therefore the one with less experience, if he gets more experience, will just end up being the 'new' Robbo...that's it... The rest is your own crazy conjecture where you go off on one thinking I have x and y vendettas...I don't

Don't give me spelling and grammar lessons...it's a forum, I'm typing informally, and that's always the last resort of someone who's getting pissed on in an argument... And for the record, I write for a living, and if you want me to start picking up on all your errors (that are actually errors as opposed to just being informal) we'd be here all day, but thankfully for you I won't stoop just that low

I'm by no means a know-it-all of African football, like I say the whole example was made up - but yea, I know a little about it...big deal, that wasn't relevant to the actual point

I'm replying so I can try and clear up what I said, not because your 'smartarse' replies are oh so enticing... I've cleared it up now - I don't think I could make it any clearer - so I'll leave you to your own devices now so you can say I'm some enemy of Forest, Forest fans, lower league football, Norwich, Robert Green and all his descendents just for daring to suggest something that uh...you...actually...agreed...with...in...the...e nd?

Shocker

[intotheforest]

I win Orion gave up.

[VDV]

Incorrect Ben, I win since I agree with both you. :)

[Sinate NZ]

If Green came to Arsenal like he was meant to 3 seasons ago, he woulda been England number 1.

There, i win.