why england are sh1t.

[G]

------------villa/liverpool--------------

city-----pompy------everton-------chelsea

chelsea--pool---villa----chelsea-----chelsea

-----------------liverpool----------------





--------------villa/liverpool---------------

city------pompy-------eveton----chelsea

la galaxy---liverpool---chelsea-----chelsea

-----------spurs------liverpool-----------


do you want me to spell it out?? :D

[bluemoon32]

------------villa/liverpool--------------

city-----pompy------everton-------chelsea

chelsea--pool---villa----chelsea-----chelsea

-----------------liverpool----------------





--------------villa/liverpool---------------

city------pompy-------eveton----chelsea

la galaxy---liverpool---chelsea-----chelsea

-----------spurs------liverpool-----------


do you want me to spell it out?? :D

They were still sh1t when half the players were from your lot though:laugh

[G]

no united OR arsenal.

make no mistake, rooney ,wes brown, hargreaves and rio would have been far better options.

[tony_montana]

no united OR arsenal.

make no mistake, rooney ,wes brown, hargreaves and rio would have been far better options.
Don't forget the one and only... WELBECK :D

[G]

oh yeah, him too. :D

[Gib710]

Welbeck will lead England to glory in 2010.

I wonder when the last England team without even one United or Arsenal player in it was...

[G]

probably the last time we didnt qualify :D

[Fowksee]

Friday night. ;)

[random monkey]

no united OR arsenal.

You can't be surprised about that :laugh

[Irishman]

Wow.................no Man Utd players being used as scrapegoats...........

[G]

its rooneys fault for buggering his ankle up.

[Gib710]

Wow.................no Man Utd players being used as scrapegoats...........

Its the fact that there were no Man Utd players that is the scapegoat :nod

[Rorge]

Wow.................no Man Utd players being used as scrapegoats...........

Amazing, isn't it? I'm not sure how the tabloids will cope, to be honest. Maybe they'll remember that McLaren was assistant at United, and blame them for that.

England are **** because there are too many players with the Roy of the Rovers complex, who think they are the be all and end all of football. Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Beckham, Cole(s), Owen.

Too many massive egos that aren't prepared to sacrifice their own glory and play as a team. That, and none of them are as good as they and the press would have you think. Except Rooney, but Ingerlund hate him unless he's saving them.

[random monkey]

I think they'll find a way of blaming england, i.e rooney giving the penalty away against Russia will probably be borught up.

[Stone_Monkey]

******* *****s... if neville, brown, ferdinand, carrick and rooney actually cared about england, they would never have lost tonight... should have got their over-paid arses out of bed the lazy ****s... ******* sick notes the lot of them...

[Omar]

Brown, Carrick and Hargreaves were all fit tonight, mate :laugh


All together now: "Oh Manchester..."

:laugh

[Celticrugby]

do you want me to spell it out?? :D

You guys buy foreign talent which is the only reason you are successful? :ninja

[nicodemus]

Actually Englands midfield should be:

------Hagreaves-------Carrick--------------
---------------Scholes---------------------


would work alot better:nod

Antyways, alteast your players will have the summer off and be refreshed for the new season:laugh

[mhrelayyan]

what a stupid coach , cant even get a draw at home ???

[Manutd7s]

Pretty sad actually...Only reason McClaren was coach is because the FA got stuck up in the hire an englishman after Sven "failed" (which he didnt ofcourse)...McClaren's highlight of his career before the job was S.A.F's assistant..boro were freaking a bottom half of the table side...bad choice by the FA, and they know why now

[King Kong]

England are **** because there are too many players with the Roy of the Rovers complex, who think they are the be all and end all of football. Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Beckham, Cole(s), Owen.

Too many massive egos that aren't prepared to sacrifice their own glory and play as a team.

Add Wayne (never scores) Rooney, Rio (I'm so great I don't lower myself for drug tests) Ferdinand and Gary (ugly bastard) Neville to that list, and you might not be far wrong.

[nicodemus]

Add Wayne (never scores) Rooney, Rio (I'm so great I don't lower myself for drug tests) Ferdinand and Gary (ugly bastard) Neville to that list, and you might not be far wrong.

Doesnt that title go to Phil Neville:ninja

[mhrelayyan]

and the stupid coach dont want to resign after this humiliated loss , he must be sacked ASAP.

[Sparky]

I blame Wes Brown.

[mhrelayyan]

i read in another forum that his contract was terminated.

[Fowksee]

Yes, mclaren is sacked.

[Tim18]

Add Wayne (never scores) Rooney, Rio (I'm so great I don't lower myself for drug tests) Ferdinand and Gary (ugly bastard) Neville to that list, and you might not be far wrong.

Rooney never scores?? :laugh

I stopped reading after that.

[random monkey]

Add Wayne (never scores) Rooney, Rio (I'm so great I don't lower myself for drug tests) Ferdinand and Gary (ugly bastard) Neville to that list, and you might not be far wrong.

Oh Nevilles to blame because he's ugly? Surely he would have put them off :laugh mind you that Modric was an ugly twunt, good player though.

At least Rooney would have put his heart and effort into it. He would have played yesterday if he could, injured or not, could you say the same about Lampard, Cole, Gerrard or Crouch?

[andymc93]

don't think you can accuse crouch of lack of effort he was england's best performer

[G]

well thats no achievement

[andymc93]

didn't say it was an achievement, just pointed out what was true

[Fowksee]

Becks was englands best actually.

[andymc93]

just because that's your opinion doesn't make it so foulks, he did play well when he came on I just thought crouchie was by far the hardest worker of the night. It pains me to say this but they could have done with someone like carrick last night so someone was there just to stroke the ball around instead we had people just hitting 50 yard hollywood balls

[nAz]

bloody hell...

mans chat bare sh1t...

does anyone remember a certain mr wonder boy wayne rooney against portugal in the world cup...yep, engalnd would have done so well with ten men on the pitch....and what he meant by wayne rooney never scores is that wayne rooney never score for england, his goal to game record for england is abissmal...crouchinhios is better and it proves when it comes to playing against world class centre backs the boy wonder gets lost...or gets sent off

[G]

mans chat bare sh1t?

do you mean bear sh1t?

are you utterly homosexual? you chavvy little cvnt? ya get me blad.

[bambergascoigne]

becks did well for about 10 mins before his legs went. crouchie was the only player you could consider anywhere near the standard expected.

[nAz]

mans chat bare sh1t?

do you mean bear sh1t?

are you utterly homosexual? you chavvy little cvnt? ya get me blad.

aint u that attention seeker...?

[G]

aint you that little scouse fvckwit who talks like a complete pillock?

get some balls you fvckin no-mark.

[nAz]

aint you that little scouse fvckwit who talks like a complete pillock?

get some balls you fvckin no-mark.

who said im scouser?

u think i aint got balls...?

interesting...?

you've been licking them all your life and you dont realise their actually my balls....

wake up and smell the coffie g, y dont u leave and see how many ppl miss u?

[G]

why would i care? ive hardly been posting much on here in the past year anyway, not since i realised how much of a set of armchair fan ****in muppets most of the people on here are.

[bambergascoigne]

go and have a w4nk children

[random monkey]

don't think you can accuse crouch of lack of effort he was england's best performer

Don't talk stupid. Beckham and Shaun Wright Phillips ran their bollocks off and Crouch, though scored a great goal, did nothing else really and his inability to head the ball was involved in their second goal (i'm not blaming the goal on him, but he played his part).

[Mare]

the only person to blame is the idiot running the team, for putting together that line up for such an important game.

[esp]

England are **** because they have/had a **** manager.

But thats not the only reason, I think Gerrard is a massive problem for any team that he's in. Somebody mentioned Roy of the Rovers in this thread, and I think they are spot on especially with Gerrard.

Can Gerrard pass 5 yards? Probably, but does he ever, its always killer balls, hollywood balls. Last night England needed Carrick, just like United do, he's class on the ball and calm is priceless. I was shocked he didn't play him. Especially since he went with Barry, who is a very good player, but not better then Carrick, absolutely no chance.

I'm hearing on the radio etc that its down to poor coaching at grassroots etc etc blah fu<king blah, and as much as that might be a reason for why we don't have a team of fu<king Pele's, did Greece have a team of Pele's, did South Korea?

Nope, they had a team of hard working players, giving there all for the shirt and nobody with an ego larger then the fu<king stadium there playing in! Plus a decent or in some cases, brilliant manager.

Is England really that hard to manage, and at least get to a championship? I don't think so at all, hell as long as you have some balance, then your ******* sorted, McClaren didn't even get the basics right the man is ******* fool.

I think he could've picked about 9 or 10 different combinations of line-up last night and they would've managed the right result, he some how ******* managed to pick the most blatantly obvious wrong line up, one man upfront, at home, without goal scoring wingers...are you on crack McClaren?

Here is an example of his tactical stupidity.

We need a goal, time to bring on another striker (why he started with one...anybody know?), so he decides on Defoe. Now Croatia have been playing a deep back four all game and attempting to counter attack us... where is Defoe at his most dangerous? When there is space between the keeper and backfour...why the fu<k bring him on then McClaren you stupid fu<king moron.

Daft tw@t

[Tim18]

just because that's your opinion doesn't make it so foulks, he did play well when he came on I just thought crouchie was by far the hardest worker of the night. It pains me to say this but they could have done with someone like carrick last night so someone was there just to stroke the ball around instead we had people just hitting 50 yard hollywood balls

End of the day, its all about opinons, he'll have his and you'll have yours and tbh I think we needed Hargreaves more than Carrick to protect the back 4, we wouldn't have conceded 3 goals if we had.

G and Nazim, seriously, grow up. :rolleyes:

[Tim18]

the only person to blame is the idiot running the team, for putting together that line up for such an important game.

So its not the players fault at all? or the FA for appointing the idiot in the first place?

[Tim18]

Can Gerrard pass 5 yards? Probably, but does he ever, its always killer balls, hollywood balls. Last night England needed Carrick, just like United do, he's class on the ball and calm is priceless. I was shocked he didn't play him. Especially since he went with Barry, who is a very good player, but not better then Carrick, absolutely no chance.


Gerrard tries to force killer balls too much, he can give away possession like that easily if it doesn't work out. You need players that can do that but I think he overdoes it when he can play a much simpler pass and keep possession. He needs to know when to keep possession and when to play one of those deadly killer balls.

[Gib710]

bloody hell...

mans chat bare sh1t...

does anyone remember a certain mr wonder boy wayne rooney against portugal in the world cup...yep, engalnd would have done so well with ten men on the pitch....and what he meant by wayne rooney never scores is that wayne rooney never score for england, his goal to game record for england is abissmal...crouchinhios is better and it proves when it comes to playing against world class centre backs the boy wonder gets lost...or gets sent off

He scored in the last two England games he played in.

[senna1985]

english players are overated and overhyped, yet every manager england has employed were dismissed as being sh*T


england never learns, never wants to own up this is how good they really are, the media is a big problem, they are the one who are hyping and overhyping.


commentators: crotia are by farrrrrrrrrrrr more techinacle.

so how are england players some of the best in the world.

only rooney deserves his hype for me, not initially though when they were saying rooney is the white pele and ronaldo MIGHT be of the best in the future hahahahah

ronaldo has put rooneys overhyping previously in his place now its widely acknowledged his very close to ronaldo but not better.

[King Kong]

Rooney never scores?? :laugh

I stopped reading after that.

Oh that's a shame becuase I then went onto Rio (I'm far too big, rich and important to bother with a drug test) Ferdinand.

Seeing as the poster I was replying to was going on about players too big fer their boots.

Ya know????:rolleyes:

[King Kong]

At least Rooney would have put his heart and effort into it. He would have played yesterday if he could, injured or not, could you say the same about Lampard, Cole, Gerrard or Crouch?

Yes because England have done sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo well whenever Rooney has played for England. He's the "Messiah, the saviour blah blah bleedin' blah"

Didn't he play in Russia? Didn't he give away the bleedin' penalty?

Remind me. Exactly HOW long was it that Rooney went without scoring an international goal (non friendly) for England?

3 years or summat???

Yeah. That Rooney is a real Michael Owen. He always pops up when it matters doesn't he???. NOT.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:laugh

[senna1985]

not the managers fault

the fans and the media should understand the team has little skills

the bottom line is we are techinally inferior to a lot of teams in europe and the world

every single attacking players in england does not even add up to half of zidans or kakas skills

100 years of english players skills does not even add up to complete set of zidane skills.

it might take 1000 years of generations and generations of footballers to master the continentals and south american players.

u take lampards skills, beckhams, rooneys, joe coles, and its not even a bergkamp

we need to make one of these players otherwise stop blaming managers who are geniuses in europe eg the baldy swede

[King Kong]

u take lampards skills, beckhams, rooneys, joe coles, and its not even a bergkamp



LOL, what the f uck did Dennis Bergkamp ever achieve internationally or in European club competition????

What did Holland or Arsenal ever win internationally when Bergkamp was playing for them? This is the player that was bombed out of Inter Milan coz he didn't live up to the promise.

Thanks for the laugh.

[Gazza]

LOL, what the f uck did Dennis Bergkamp ever achieve internationally or in European club competition????

What did Holland or Arsenal ever win internationally when Bergkamp was playing for them? This is the player that was bombed out of Inter Milan coz he didn't live up to the promise.

Thanks for the laugh.

So you're saying he wasn't a player good enough to play for Inter Milan?

Thanks for the laugh indeed

[-Orion-]

^ You know Inter played with Ronaldo and Vieiri in that time...who each had some of the most disgusting scoring records in what is and always has been the best league in the world in terms of defense... Not to say Bergkamp wasn't class in his own right... and couldn't have maybe made it in some capacity at Inter...but he didn't live up to the promise at the time, like the guy said...don't read into it more than is necessary

[Sparky]

Damn that Wes Brown.

[Fowksee]

LOL, what the f uck did Dennis Bergkamp ever achieve internationally or in European club competition????

What did Holland or Arsenal ever win internationally when Bergkamp was playing for them? This is the player that was bombed out of Inter Milan coz he didn't live up to the promise.

Thanks for the laugh.

Bergkamp won 2 UEFA Cups (one with Ajax, one with Inter) and was Runner up in 1 (with Arsenal). Won the Cup winners Cup (Ajax). Runner up in Champions League once, won 3League titles in england, and 4 FA Cups.

Most players would be happy with that I reckon.

However I dont judge players on what they have in their trophy cabinet, rather what they do on the pitch. :nod

[Fowksee]

He was also 2nd and 3rd in euroipean footballer of the year.

[senna1985]

ok lets put it this way every single attacking players england has ever produced since the dawn of football dont add up to a zidane or any modern players like kaka or ronaldinho

england attackers are all the same, good passers, shooters, crossers and defending

give any english player a ball and very little space, the chances are they aint techical enough or skilled enough to get the ball out of that space.

the likes kaka and ronaldinho always find a way.

whats the diffrence between lampard rooney beckham and gerrad? VERY LITTLE, there all good passers, defenders, shooters, no pace, no skill no sh*t.

whats the difffrence between zidane, henry and ribery for france??

henry is pacey, takes players on

ribery, runs the flanks, passer, shooter, and defends well too

zidane, stepovers, pirowets, skills, close control, deaf touches, takes players on, defence splitting passes.

england

gerrad
lampard
joe cole
barry
crouch
defoe


there all the same

[nAz]

just because rooneys scored in his last two games dsnt take away the fact that he went a whole year without scoring for england and when was the last time he actually played good, fair enough gerrard has been utter sh1te for engaland but at least i admit it

[Stone_Monkey]

Brown, Carrick and Hargreaves were all fit tonight, mate :laugh


All together now: "Oh Manchester..."

:laugh

I was being sarcastic... even as a city fan I'd have all of those (except Brown) in the England team above nearly every other player!

[Gib710]

just because rooneys scored in his last two games dsnt take away the fact that he went a whole year without scoring for england and when was the last time he actually played good, fair enough gerrard has been utter sh1te for engaland but at least i admit it

Rooney also went a couple of years without scoring in Europe and has now got something like 8 in his last 7. So while it was true for a while that he never scored in Europe you can't say that now.

Rooney's goalscoring has improved no end since he joined the club and England will also reap the benefits of that in the future, just like they reaped the benefits of it in their last two games.

For a supporting striker who only just turned 22, I don't think a scoring record of more than a goal every 3 games (14 goals in 40 apps) can be considered 'abysmal' at international level. Its no Crouch (or Healy) but it will only improve as he gains more caps and goals.

[Tim18]

ok lets put it this way every single attacking players england has ever produced since the dawn of football dont add up to a zidane or any modern players like kaka or ronaldinho

england attackers are all the same, good passers, shooters, crossers and defending

give any english player a ball and very little space, the chances are they aint techical enough or skilled enough to get the ball out of that space.

the likes kaka and ronaldinho always find a way.

whats the diffrence between lampard rooney beckham and gerrad? VERY LITTLE, there all good passers, defenders, shooters, no pace, no skill no sh*t.

whats the difffrence between zidane, henry and ribery for france??

henry is pacey, takes players on

ribery, runs the flanks, passer, shooter, and defends well too

zidane, stepovers, pirowets, skills, close control, deaf touches, takes players on, defence splitting passes.

england

gerrad
lampard
joe cole
barry
crouch
defoe


there all the same

You make alot of good points that i never really thought bout tbh, though Joe Cole is the type of player who can take it past players and do abit of magic in a tight space, he may not be as good as it as Ronaldinho, Kaka etc but he does seem to be in there type of mould.

[-Orion-]

ok lets put it this way every single attacking players england has ever produced since the dawn of football dont add up to a zidane or any modern players like kaka or ronaldinho

england attackers are all the same, good passers, shooters, crossers and defending

give any english player a ball and very little space, the chances are they aint techical enough or skilled enough to get the ball out of that space.

the likes kaka and ronaldinho always find a way.

whats the diffrence between lampard rooney beckham and gerrad? VERY LITTLE, there all good passers, defenders, shooters, no pace, no skill no sh*t.

whats the difffrence between zidane, henry and ribery for france??

henry is pacey, takes players on

ribery, runs the flanks, passer, shooter, and defends well too

zidane, stepovers, pirowets, skills, close control, deaf touches, takes players on, defence splitting passes.

england

gerrad
lampard
joe cole
barry
crouch
defoe


there all the same

You're not very clever are you...

Believe me, I'm a huge fan of European football...and will regularly state the opinion that England are overrated and lack technical ability...but your comments are on a whole other level of biased stupidity... I hope Engish isn't your first language and you just have trouble expressing yourself...because otherwise there's no excuse for some of the **** you said... It was just...inaccurate exaggerations... Trying too hard to make a point

[nAz]

Rooney also went a couple of years without scoring in Europe and has now got something like 8 in his last 7. So while it was true for a while that he never scored in Europe you can't say that now.

Rooney's goalscoring has improved no end since he joined the club and England will also reap the benefits of that in the future, just like they reaped the benefits of it in their last two games.

For a supporting striker who only just turned 22, I don't think a scoring record of more than a goal every 3 games (14 goals in 40 apps) can be considered 'abysmal' at international level. Its no Crouch (or Healy) but it will only improve as he gains more caps and goals.


im not doubting his obvious quality, im just saying its not only other teams that there players seem to play awfully for their country but brilliant for there clubs. maybe its just the manager at the end of the day...only time will tel with rooney, obviously hes gna improve, sometimes i forget how young he is to be honest...

there is no player that puts any sort of performance for england at the level they do for the club, except maybe owen to a certain extent

[Gib710]

im not doubting his obvious quality, im just saying its not only other teams that there players seem to play awfully for their country but brilliant for there clubs. maybe its just the manager at the end of the day...only time will tel with rooney, obviously hes gna improve, sometimes i forget how young he is to be honest...

there is no player that puts any sort of performance for england at the level they do for the club, except maybe owen to a certain extent

Owen plays for a club?! :o

[Starsaber]

I actually feel sorry for them, they gave him a chance when no one else would and hes done sweet FA to repay any of that £16m they shelled out for him.

[nAz]

Owen plays for a club?! :o

lmao:laugh

is that a dig at newcastle :laugh

[Omar]

Oh that's a shame becuase I then went onto Rio (I'm far too big, rich and important to bother with a drug test) Ferdinand.

Seeing as the poster I was replying to was going on about players too big fer their boots.

Ya know????:rolleyes:


Can England do without Rio, though?

Their form without him suggests not. This quote from an article from Euro 2004 remains true, IMO, too;

England without Rio Ferdinand seldom try to intercept attacks, preferring to deal with everything through tackles. Their greatest sin, which cost them the French match, and may cost them the tournament, is their habit of fouling just outside their own penalty area.

[esp]

ok lets put it this way every single attacking players england has ever produced since the dawn of football dont add up to a zidane or any modern players like kaka or ronaldinho

england attackers are all the same, good passers, shooters, crossers and defending

give any english player a ball and very little space, the chances are they aint techical enough or skilled enough to get the ball out of that space.

the likes kaka and ronaldinho always find a way.

whats the diffrence between lampard rooney beckham and gerrad? VERY LITTLE, there all good passers, defenders, shooters, no pace, no skill no sh*t.

whats the difffrence between zidane, henry and ribery for france??

henry is pacey, takes players on

ribery, runs the flanks, passer, shooter, and defends well too

zidane, stepovers, pirowets, skills, close control, deaf touches, takes players on, defence splitting passes.

england

gerrad
lampard
joe cole
barry
crouch
defoe


there all the same

Wow...that was some amazingly bias, retarded nonesense...ever heard of player called Paul Gascoigne, he was quite talented.

[senna1985]

1990 was the best england ever done and yea gascoygne was quality, but those days the likes of rivaldo, romario maradonna would dwarf his qualities.


1966 that was apparently awesome with 8 teams or something that no one knew about


its funny how when gascoigne went to italy they thought he was sh*T lol

michael owen was apparently gonna take the world by storm, he went to spain and became a substitute lol

rooney the white pele? lol

joe cole: in the chelsea dressing room they call him zizou cole haha

english players they believe there own hype, when really they are only good players and nothing special.

i dont think i'm bias the stats will tell you all you want to know they come in numbers, you shoudnt have a problem with those.

[HajdukCeltic]

My friends, English players have no heart and that is only reason of their weakness, plus- they played against the squad with the heart of warriors... We are born to be warriors!!!!
Steve is lausy coach, but he isn`t the only factor of this shame of England..,
Lampard is paid almost as whole Croatian team bu money can`t buy proud and fanatic patriotism we have for our country...
I reccomend to next England coach to pick the squad from English Coca Cola championship and I would bet with everything I have that they would much better than this overpaid scums...

Greetings from little country with the big heart, greetings from Croatia!!!!!!!

[Gazza]

1990 was the best england ever done and yea gascoygne was quality, but those days the likes of rivaldo, romario maradonna would dwarf his qualities.


1966 that was apparently awesome with 8 teams or something that no one knew about


its funny how when gascoigne went to italy they thought he was sh*T lol

michael owen was apparently gonna take the world by storm, he went to spain and became a substitute lol

rooney the white pele? lol

joe cole: in the chelsea dressing room they call him zizou cole haha

english players they believe there own hype, when really they are only good players and nothing special.

i dont think i'm bias the stats will tell you all you want to know they come in numbers, you shoudnt have a problem with those.

Stop putting "lol" after every england player you mention.

I hate cvnts like you weho think they are on a higher level to everyone else and think they can look down on people becuase they are perfect.

Every single player you mentioned is probably at least 10 times better than you at football so you can fvck right off

lol
lol
lol
lol
NO

[Stone_Monkey]

The Independent published their team in the paper if they were manager...

Hart (City)

Taylor (Newcastle)
Richards (City)
Terry (Chelsea)
Cole (Chelsea)

Walcott (Arsenal)
Carrick (United)
Johnson (City)
Milner (Newcastle)

Rooney (United)
Owen (Newcastle)


Personally, I don't agree with it... but it shows too things. One, I reckon it would be a better team to actually watch, although whether they would win anything major or not would be something to be seen. Secondly, it shows the complete lack of depth in selecting England players. There is no chance that the likes of Johnson, Hart, Taylor or Walcott are ready to step up yet and win the Euros or World Cup; but would it hurt to get rid of the players that have been playing for 6 years together and not won anything??

Everyone says the England team picks itself and 99% of people will agree on at least 10 players in the first XI, and yet these players have won **** all, under performed and failed to qualify... let alone entertain anyone.

So while the above team wouldn't be my first XI, I agree that the likes of Lampard, Beckham, Gerrard, and Cole need to be dropped so that other players can get a chance. Whatever way you look at it, its not working with those players. The defence and strikers pick themselves because Neville, Ferdinand, Terry and Cole are the best English players at what they do in the Premiership imo and are rarely at fault in an England shirt. Likewise, there isn't really anyone to replace Owen and Rooney. Defoe, Bent, and Crouch don't get in their teams starting XI. Andy Johnson has done feck all recently, which leaves Walcott (who doesn't start for Arsenal) and Heskey. Maybe Ashton will emerge and the lads at Everton. But no-one is there to challange them.

The midfield is the problem. Lampard is not worldclass no matter how many people try and take the high moral ground on this and throw stats about from Chelsea. Every big England game for the past 2-3 years he has been anon, he was missing on Wednesday and the whole reason the team was changed was to accomodate him in the first place. He works well in the system at Chelsea, but not for England in a flat 442. Likewise, SWP is not good enough at that level. Fantastic player for City, but either he has missed his chance or is yet to show his best. Cole again is the most skilful of them all, and yet looks lost, dazed and ineffective most of the time. Its nice having a party horse in there to pull of the extra tricks, but if he can't produce crosses for a 6'7 striker, then what does he provide? Gerrard has been "held back" according to some people by being played alongside Lampard, and yet when Barry has played he out shone Gerrard in each game.

[ruudlover]

No Rio Ferdinand ? :laugh

Well done the inderpendent, forget englands best defender

[Gazza]

If we get a new manager we need to change up our style of play, get rid of a few egos and make us an organized and fluent unit

I propose this formation:

--------------------------------------Foster/Green-----------------------------------
Richards---------------Ferdinand----------------------Terry----------------------Cole
-------------Carrick-------------------Hargreaves----------------Barry---------------
Walcott------------------------------------------------------------------------Young
----------------------------------------Rooney--------------------------------------

This is THE TEAM I tells'ya

It has a good balence of defensiveness and offensivenes. The 3 can all dfend to some extend and Carrick's passing to either speedy winger would help

Also we actualy need a gameplan going into a game. Why play a team if the tactics don't fit the players. This has been one of England's main problems.

Tahe wingers can run in shoot link up with Rooney, overlap and score. Rooney has shown he can play on his own and its not like he wont be getting support from the wingers. Its a big ask for the two young wingers granted but Walcott isnt really a winger and can always play up top with Rooney and can give us a bit of variety. With the 3 sitting and then the other 3 going forward we should play better football and more importantly score goals. Our defending will be more organized with a new manager which shouldnt be a problem with the players we have and then the strikers and attacking players can do the rest.

[Gazza]

I would include Owen but its pointless because he wouldnt be available. Hes too injury prone.

[Boovy]

They just went stupidly young, its an old trick of radio talk shows and newspapers to strike discussion

For example theres no logic in selecting Joe Hart or Michael Johnson (dont want to seem like im picking on city players but im sure even city fans understand my concern...at this moment in time anyway

Also Carrick over Hargreaves doesnt make sense and like you said Taylor over Ferdinand

[Gib710]

No Rio Ferdinand ? :laugh

Well done the inderpendent, forget englands best defender

For Steven Taylor no less :huh:

[intotheforest]

Thats a stupid formation stupid Gazza. 3 midfielders in the centre who don't score goals often, and 2 of which are defensive players. I can't see why J.Cole is dropped, nor can I say why Owen is. Owen is better than Rooney for England, FACT! J.Cole is tireless in his efforts and although he never gives up, he has become greedy of late but this can be supported. J.Cole and Owen are one of fe who have pride playing for England. I can't disagree ith the forward line, but maybe thats for when Owen has retired.

Now I will build on the words of some from the Carragher thread.

Firstly, why you all seem to think recalling Scholes is the way forward s frankly beyond me. This guy WILL NOT DO IT! He was not fantastic in Euro 04, just before he reitred and I would give Michael Johnson, the chance instead. You say Owen wikll always be injured but over the past few year I have thought the same in Scholes. We don't need him. England need to move on and forget someone who has retired from international football. In fact where are the benefits for MU from this? He retired to concentrate more on MU. and with him getting no younger, he'll be half the player he is now should he return to our NT.

In fact most of you need to move on and not try and cling on to old memories of fading England greats, who you believe would do it for England. It aint going to happen. WE have to look forwards not backwards.

We all know Beckham can play that killer through ball and cross, but he has done himself no favours by joining LA. A player of his ability playing CCC football with a 6 month break at the end of the season, leaves him unfit and short of sharpness to oplay the competitiveness of NT football. He always gives his all don't get me wrong, but if I was to be appointed coach I would give him his 100th cap and drop him for good. His legs are going and as said reviously we need to look forwards, not backwards.

Barry is crap, not England calibre and has just been on a touch of good form. He is not England FT quality, will never hold down an FT place and on recent showings quite rightly so. I think Hargreaves should have played over him on Wednesday and it proves that my feelings were correct.

Foster is overrated full stop. No better than the current crop we have and Robinson and Carson deserve the nod a head of him. When Foster can hold down a FT slot at MU and play well, I may reconsider my views.

[Stone_Monkey]

They just went stupidly young, its an old trick of radio talk shows and newspapers to strike discussion

For example theres no logic in selecting Joe Hart or Michael Johnson (dont want to seem like im picking on city players but im sure even city fans understand my concern...at this moment in time anyway

Also Carrick over Hargreaves doesnt make sense and like you said Taylor over Ferdinand

No that was my point exactly; they're not ready. Johnson has been good for us this season, but there is still a lot of his game that needs developing. Hart is a good keeper, but he is no better than Robinson, Carson, Foster or James. The former and latter having far more experience.

[illmatic]

The Independent published their team in the paper if they were manager...

Hart (City)

Taylor (Newcastle)
Richards (City)
Terry (Chelsea)
Cole (Chelsea)

Walcott (Arsenal)
Carrick (United)
Johnson (City)
Milner (Newcastle)

Rooney (United)
Owen (Newcastle)


Personally, I don't agree with it... but it shows too things. One, I reckon it would be a better team to actually watch, although whether they would win anything major or not would be something to be seen. Secondly, it shows the complete lack of depth in selecting England players. There is no chance that the likes of Johnson, Hart, Taylor or Walcott are ready to step up yet and win the Euros or World Cup; but would it hurt to get rid of the players that have been playing for 6 years together and not won anything??

Everyone says the England team picks itself and 99% of people will agree on at least 10 players in the first XI, and yet these players have won **** all, under performed and failed to qualify... let alone entertain anyone.

So while the above team wouldn't be my first XI, I agree that the likes of Lampard, Beckham, Gerrard, and Cole need to be dropped so that other players can get a chance. Whatever way you look at it, its not working with those players. The defence and strikers pick themselves because Neville, Ferdinand, Terry and Cole are the best English players at what they do in the Premiership imo and are rarely at fault in an England shirt. Likewise, there isn't really anyone to replace Owen and Rooney. Defoe, Bent, and Crouch don't get in their teams starting XI. Andy Johnson has done feck all recently, which leaves Walcott (who doesn't start for Arsenal) and Heskey. Maybe Ashton will emerge and the lads at Everton. But no-one is there to challange them.

The midfield is the problem. Lampard is not worldclass no matter how many people try and take the high moral ground on this and throw stats about from Chelsea. Every big England game for the past 2-3 years he has been anon, he was missing on Wednesday and the whole reason the team was changed was to accomodate him in the first place. He works well in the system at Chelsea, but not for England in a flat 442. Likewise, SWP is not good enough at that level. Fantastic player for City, but either he has missed his chance or is yet to show his best. Cole again is the most skilful of them all, and yet looks lost, dazed and ineffective most of the time. Its nice having a party horse in there to pull of the extra tricks, but if he can't produce crosses for a 6'7 striker, then what does he provide? Gerrard has been "held back" according to some people by being played alongside Lampard, and yet when Barry has played he out shone Gerrard in each game.



is hart not irish ?or declared he wants to play for ireland , maybe im wrong but i thought he was .

[bluemoon32]

is hart not irish ?or declared he wants to play for ireland , maybe im wrong but i thought he was .

He plays for England U-21's

[Stone_Monkey]

is hart not irish ?or declared he wants to play for ireland , maybe im wrong but i thought he was .

He's the England U-21 keeper... you're thinking of Ian Harte ;)

EDIT: noticed Bluemoon said it anyway

[illmatic]

yeah just looked it up sorry , i was thinking of him too , i dont why but for some reason iv been thinking he was irish i can remember someone telling me he was gonna be irelands number one in years to come , obviously a pub conversation .:nod

[Omar]

I propose this formation:

--------------------------------------Foster/Green-----------------------------------
Richards---------------Ferdinand----------------------Terry----------------------Cole
-------------Carrick-------------------Hargreaves----------------Barry---------------
Walcott------------------------------------------------------------------------Young
----------------------------------------Rooney--------------------------------------

This is THE TEAM I tells'ya.

:laugh

That team would get buttraped against any sort of quality opposition.

You have Rooney in the one position (apart from wide left) where it's proven he's completely ineffective, Walcott as a winger, a right-footed left-sided winger and a 3 man defensive midfield with little attacking capability (save Carrick's passing).

In fact, that looks like Agent McLaren's work!

If you want success then you're going to have to play a formation that you're best at and then make sure that you have the correct players to utilise it. As obvious as it is, 4-4-2 is what England are best at, is the formation it has the best players for and would be the most successful with (if balanced correctly). It's not even that difficult to do. Look;

Foster

? -- Rio -- Richards -- Baines

Lennon -- Carrick or Gerrard -- Hargreaves --?

Walcott -- Rooney

Question marks indicate positions where there is no outright candidate, BTW.

Carrick or Gerrard depending on the situation (whether you want ball retention with the occasional ball forward or dynamism in attack, respectively).

Foster is overrated full stop. No better than the current crop we have and Robinson and Carson deserve the nod a head of him. When Foster can hold down a FT slot at MU and play well, I may reconsider my views

Well that is what we are expecting him to do over the course of this season (sadly not the case) and next, which is why he is so highly rated (not over-rated) and is making the future predicted England teams of so many of the footballing experts, pundits and fans alike.

[welshwizard]

He was also 2nd and 3rd in euroipean footballer of the year.

In the same season?!?!

Fecking hell :laugh

[Gazza]

Well with 3 midfielders it will give the rest the license to go forward and theres no denying the team is defensively sound

I balme the kits TBH! Look how dull they look! They make England play crap! Change our kits to red or something and we'd play better football and get better results. You know it makes sense!

[welshwizard]

england are suffering from the players being bigger than the manager. If Mourinho was in charge he would pick players in positions to fit his formation. Every england manager for as long as I can remember would pick the best 11 players and try and make them fit into a formation they aren't suited to. Add in the fact that the fans and press claim players are "world class" when in reality they are clearly not, means you get the ludicrous view that Gerrard is the best midfielder in the world, Ferdinand is the best defender, Rooney is the best striker, etc etc etc. The harsh reality is that technically england's players are light years behind the best on the continent and South America. The managers are tactically inept and the players are hyped up to believe they are better than they really are.

The last round of fixtures saw the big four field only 10 BRITISH players out of 44 possible. It is no use slagging off the club managers. They are paid to produce successful teams and it means getting value for money and buying foreign players. British football needs a major overhaul, starting with grass roots levels being coached, playing on smaller pitches so that size and power comes second to pace, skill and intelligence.

But at least we won't have the nauseous build-up in the media as the finals of Euro 2008 approach.

[Gazza]

This shoul now be moved to the England NT forum.

[Omar]

Well with 3 midfielders it will give the rest the license to go forward and theres no denying the team is defensively sound

The point is 'the rest' are playing in their least effective positions. Heck, (arguably Barry aside) even the 3 players you've put in behind them aren't effective as a 3-man midfield.

And since when was the Ing-ur-land brigade ever happy with an overly defensive selection?

It is no use slagging off the club managers. They are paid to produce successful teams and it means getting value for money and buying foreign players. British football needs a major overhaul, starting with grass roots levels being coached, playing on smaller pitches so that size and power comes second to pace, skill and intelligence.

Spot on, FWIW.

At least you've explained what you mean, as well; too often this week I've heard/read 'There's too many foreigns in our game !!!1111!1444!' used exclusively as a reason for the demise in the National Team's fortune, as if 'they're comin' in and takin' our jobs!!!11123!9!!'. The fact of the matter is that when an English player is good enough, he plays.

playing on smaller pitches so that size and power comes second to pace, skill and intelligence

How would you explain the recent success of many of the African nations, then?

[random monkey]

Didn't he play in Russia? Didn't he give away the bleedin' penalty?

Cos it was a penalty :rolleyes:


And didn't Scholes go 3 years without a goal? Doesn't mean he didn't do anything or give his all during that period?

[libertine]

For the future...


GK - Been done to death. Should try and get Kasper Schmichal to committ to us though.

The CB pairing doesnt need changing. They have plenty of years left in them and they are very solid. Once Neville is fit Richards can cover CB and we have to hope one of the younger players steps up and proves an able back up in the next year or so and/or Woodgate gets fit. Campbell should retire now.

Richards is better at CB and with Neville ageing there is a gap at RB - For who? I don't know. Noone leaps out as a future england player in that position. Maybe that lad at City? Nedum something or other??

LB - Well its a toss up, Cole is out of form, Bridge had a shocker, Shorey has mainly been solid and Baines is the rising star. All young enough to be around a few years so I would say its just a 4 way battle for one of them to step up and take the place. As long as Baines carries on developing we shouldnt have a problem there.


RM - SWP, Lennon, Young, Bentle, Walcott. All capable players (not Walcott yet) a couple of which need to work on their end piece but all can attack players and if 2 of the 4 reach somewhere near their potential thats in safe hands and again one needs to come out and claim the shirt. Beckham is too old for the future, isnt playing competitivly and even when he plays well, leaves us sitting deeper playing long ball. International career should be over.

CM - This is where its difficult. Gerrard and Lampard are playing poor for England. However Gerrard has been given his chance playing without Lampard and has failed DISMALLY. He is also a poor captain. I think he is a player that doesnt benefit teams. IMO Liverpool would possibly be better off without him (controversial I know). Gerrard would be out the team now for me. I would give Lampard ONE chance alongside Hargreaves and see what he does. If he plays well - Then we have our midfield pairing. If not then he is out of the team too. Carrick is young enough to be a key player for us but with injuries etc hasnt shown much this season. Could be a potential partner to Hargreaves though. Barry is a cracking player but now he is 'droppable' again so I would have him as a sqaud player.

Johnson is a possiblity for the future in CM, with Carrick or Hargreaves perhaps. He isnt ready to start games yet but I would get him in the squad. Get him in the environment and used to it.

LM - Joe Cole has never been my preferred option as he has such an inability to go outside his man. I was a fan of giving Downing another chance but his form has dipped for club too now. Ashley Young could be the answer as he is more direct, can go outside and can score goals. So IMO until an out and out LM becomes ready, Young is the way to go.

ST - Rooney obviously is number one choice. Owen is injured too often so he becomes a side note. He comes in when fit but we have to prepare to be without him. The key here is Ashton, he is an all round striker who would carry a lot of the burden and let Rooney play. Rooney is more than capable of playing 5 yards further up the pitch than normal as a more 'striker' than in the hole. Ashton/Rooney could work IMO if Ashton can get fit and get some games under his belt.

Defoe and Smith out the squad. We should never recall either except in a crisis (although I love Smith and think he works well with Owen).

Bent needs to be given a chance, see what he can do. If he fails then get him out the squad.

Crouch is a key player for us, he shouldnt be first choice though as it tempts us into long balls. His goalscoring record is phenomenal.

Agbonlahor - Needs to be given his chance soon. Good player, fast, strong, some finishing ability.

James Vaughan is another to look out for.



All in all we have a pretty strong side and there is plenty of bright sparks for the future. We need to blood some of them now and leave some of the failed experiments and deadwood out.

[Kane]

That's because English media. It's them who made some sh1te statements about golden generation and stuff. English and tv is overrating English players what gives them a pressure they can't cope with from the fans and FA. And in thruth, those players are far from Lineker or Shearer of their time. They're very good team but not as good as everybody thinks.

[Stone_Monkey]

GK - Been done to death. Should try and get Kasper Schmichal to committ to us though.

City's third choice keeper?? :laugh

Hart > Schemical

The CB pairing doesnt need changing. They have plenty of years left in them and they are very solid. Once Neville is fit Richards can cover CB and we have to hope one of the younger players steps up and proves an able back up in the next year or so and/or Woodgate gets fit. Campbell should retire now.

This was the surprising thing about the game against Croatia; normally England have a plethora of centre backs. Terry, Ferdinand, Woodgate, King, and Carragher would have all got ahead of the two that played. Full back position is more problematic, Neville, Richards and Cole being the only decent ones... behind that you're looking at Shorey, Konchesky, Young and Nevillle.

Richards is better at CB and with Neville ageing there is a gap at RB - For who? I don't know. Noone leaps out as a future england player in that position. Maybe that lad at City? Nedum something or other??

Onouha

He is a better centre-back than full back as well... in fact most people would have formally rated Onouha higher than Richards. Because of Dunne and Distin being such a good partnership and now the signing of Corluka he has been on the bench, but was awesome for England u-21 in the tournament.

LB - Well its a toss up, Cole is out of form, Bridge had a shocker, Shorey has mainly been solid and Baines is the rising star. All young enough to be around a few years so I would say its just a 4 way battle for one of them to step up and take the place. As long as Baines carries on developing we shouldnt have a problem there.

Agreed. Problematic because behind Cole there is no one capable of stepping up at the moment.

RM - SWP, Lennon, Young, Bentley, Walcott. All capable players (not Walcott yet) a couple of which need to work on their end piece but all can attack players and if 2 of the 4 reach somewhere near their potential thats in safe hands and again one needs to come out and claim the shirt. Beckham is too old for the future, isnt playing competitivly and even when he plays well, leaves us sitting deeper playing long ball. International career should be over.

Again I agree... Beckham had the most impact the other day, but he has shown that he doesn't have the same effect for 90mins as he has done at the beginning of the decade. SWP has dropped off the rocket by moving to Chelsea, anywhere else and he had the potential to develop... it doesn't seem like he is going to get that finished product status any time soon unless things change. Has Lennon been injured this season? Seems to have dropped off the radar. After that we're getting into mediocracy with Bentley and Pennant. Walcott will prob end up a striker by all accounts.

CM - This is where its difficult. Gerrard and Lampard are playing poor for England. However Gerrard has been given his chance playing without Lampard and has failed DISMALLY. He is also a poor captain. I think he is a player that doesnt benefit teams. IMO Liverpool would possibly be better off without him (controversial I know). Gerrard would be out the team now for me. I would give Lampard ONE chance alongside Hargreaves and see what he does. If he plays well - Then we have our midfield pairing. If not then he is out of the team too. Carrick is young enough to be a key player for us but with injuries etc hasnt shown much this season. Could be a potential partner to Hargreaves though. Barry is a cracking player but now he is 'droppable' again so I would have him as a sqaud player.

If putting Barry in did nothing more than showing that England could win without Lampard playing, it also showed that Gerrard does not have the impact in an England shirt as he does for Liverpool. Barry out shone him in every department in the previous two games at wembley. Now, utilise someone better like Hargreaves and you have creater potential for success.

Johnson is a possiblity for the future in CM, with Carrick or Hargreaves perhaps. He isnt ready to start games yet but I would get him in the squad. Get him in the environment and used to it.

Johnson is a long way off the finished product, and again people shouldn't be jumping on the bandwagon as of yet and calling for an England debut because they will be disappointed. Carrick I think is a decent player, but not starting XI material when you consider the other choices.

LM - Joe Cole has never been my preferred option as he has such an inability to go outside his man. I was a fan of giving Downing another chance but his form has dipped for club too now. Ashley Young could be the answer as he is more direct, can go outside and can score goals. So IMO until an out and out LM becomes ready, Young is the way to go.

The perpetualy dilema for England matches. Cole is a one trick pony and flatters to decieve imo. Tricky little player and can score some fab goals, but isn't consistantly good enough to warrent being spoken in the same breath as those who do the same better such as Zidane and Kaka. He is there by default at the moment though because the only other option is Downing who is the ****tist of all the players mentioned in this post by a long shot. Incredibly over-rated by McClaren. Lennon possibly? Plays there for Spurs sometimes. Young is a good shout, especially if they consider playing a 4-3-3 formation.

ST - Rooney obviously is number one choice. Owen is injured too often so he becomes a side note. He comes in when fit but we have to prepare to be without him. The key here is Ashton, he is an all round striker who would carry a lot of the burden and let Rooney play. Rooney is more than capable of playing 5 yards further up the pitch than normal as a more 'striker' than in the hole. Ashton/Rooney could work IMO if Ashton can get fit and get some games under his belt.

Said it before... it is a sad state of affairs and shows the over-hyped attitude to England when the team v Croatia was announced. Defoe, Bent and Crouch are not first team starters for their clubs. Effectively the "golden generation" has no first team regulars outside of Owen and Rooney.

Heskey did a quality job supporting Owen, but would he be good enough to take to the world cup?? Would have been a better choice than Walcott last time round! Could the same be said in the future?? I doubt. Ashton when fit and on form needs to prove he is as good as he was when he earnt the call up last time round. Johnson has dropped off the boil since moving to Everton... after that you're scrapping the barrel.

Defoe and Smith out the squad. We should never recall either except in a crisis (although I love Smith and think he works well with Owen).


Smith is wasted as a CM and isn't a much better striker. Decent back up but again not first XI

Bent needs to be given a chance, see what he can do. If he fails then get him out the squad.

Not getting in the Spurs team kinda says something about him struggling to make the step up imo.

Crouch is a key player for us, he shouldnt be first choice though as it tempts us into long balls. His goalscoring record is phenomenal.

3rd choice and should be utilised properly. Heskey = holding striker, Crouch = goalscorer. Used properly he can be a good player, but needs support and needs ball into feet.

Agbonlahor - Needs to be given his chance soon. Good player, fast, strong, some finishing ability.

James Vaughan is another to look out for.

Ones for the future and have to prove themselevs first.


All in all we have a pretty strong side and there is plenty of bright sparks for the future. We need to blood some of them now and leave some of the failed experiments and deadwood out.

Disagree... we have a strong first XI if they can be organised by the right man. Behind that we have a mix of has beens, mediocre players and developing youngsters. Hardly any impact players and even less that are actually challanging the regulars for their place.

[RCKB]

I would include Owen but its pointless because he wouldnt be available. Hes too injury prone.

and Rooney isnt?

[Dragonlord]

4-4-2 is the only thing thats going to work. Gerrard could be on the right, because hargreaves should play. But that won't really matter, because the problem is not formational/tactical anyway.

[petetheblue]

nedum onouha will be in the england team within the next couple of years, and rightly so.

[Gazza]

and Rooney isnt?

No h isnt. Hes got injured three times recently and has always made speedy reecoveries and usually doesnt miss games, well at least for United.

[Shockwave]

england are suffering from the players being bigger than the manager. If Mourinho was in charge he would pick players in positions to fit his formation. Every england manager for as long as I can remember would pick the best 11 players and try and make them fit into a formation they aren't suited to. Add in the fact that the fans and press claim players are "world class" when in reality they are clearly not, means you get the ludicrous view that Gerrard is the best midfielder in the world, Ferdinand is the best defender, Rooney is the best striker, etc etc etc. The harsh reality is that technically england's players are light years behind the best on the continent and South America. The managers are tactically inept and the players are hyped up to believe they are better than they really are.

The last round of fixtures saw the big four field only 10 BRITISH players out of 44 possible. It is no use slagging off the club managers. They are paid to produce successful teams and it means getting value for money and buying foreign players. British football needs a major overhaul, starting with grass roots levels being coached, playing on smaller pitches so that size and power comes second to pace, skill and intelligence.

But at least we won't have the nauseous build-up in the media as the finals of Euro 2008 approach.

Couldn't agree more with you. I've been saying the same things to my mates but they still kept saying, 'no they're the best players in the world, they just can't play as a team'. Bollocks. They're hyped up, overpriced players by the fans and the media so the Premierleague would be called the best league in the world.

[Fowksee]

The Premiership is the best in the world, but thats coz of the foregners, not coz of the Englsih players. Its the price you pay I guess, Bundesliga isnt that good (look at their club sides in Europe?) and yet Germany as a NT is sh!t hot right now.

[Gazza]

The Premiership is the best in the world, but thats coz of the foregners, not coz of the Englsih players. Its the price you pay I guess, Bundesliga isnt that good (look at their club sides in Europe?) and yet Germany as a NT is sh!t hot right now.


Well the Spanish NT is good at the moment and they have the second best league in the world after us IMO. They have a better balence than us because they are producing youngsters like Fabregas and Ramos

[libertine]

City's third choice keeper?? :laugh

Hart > Schemical





Just thought I would clear this up. I am not talking about Schmeical playing NOW. Just that I think he has the potential to be a VERY good goalkeeper so we wanna try to get him to committ to England now before its too late.

[Fowksee]

Yeah, if you look at their top 2 teams, Barca and real. They have lots of Spanish:

Puyol, Iniesta, Xavi, Bojan, ezquerro, Valdes, Cassillas, Ramos, Guti, Raul, Soldado, Salgado

[Fowksee]

Kasper Scmechel also has conceded less goals than Hart, despite playing many more times.

[Shockwave]

The Premiership is the best in the world, but thats coz of the foregners, not coz of the Englsih players. Its the price you pay I guess, Bundesliga isnt that good (look at their club sides in Europe?) and yet Germany as a NT is sh!t hot right now.

No the premiership aint the best team in the world. You lot keep saying that because all the pundits have got it into your head.

[Shockwave]

double post

[Fowksee]

It is the most watched. :nod

Its deffo the most exciting, I watch Spanish football too and the excitement level is not the same. Maybe technically they are better.

[Gib710]

Depends on your criteria for 'best' I guess, but I'd much rather watch the Premiership than any other league.

And to be honest I'd much rather watch Serie A than La Liga.

[mart]

Depends on your criteria for 'best' I guess, but I'd much rather watch the Premiership than any other league.

And to be honest I'd much rather watch Serie A than La Liga.Id rather watch Bundesliga than both of them but i refuse to shell out for Setanta.

[Timonator]

The Premiership is the best in the world, but thats coz of the foregners, not coz of the Englsih players. Its the price you pay I guess, Bundesliga isnt that good (look at their club sides in Europe?) and yet Germany as a NT is sh!t hot right now.

Thats exactly how it is. The price we pay for a fan-friendly and traditional league is high. Our clubs dont do well in Europe because they dont follow the trend and throw piles of money out of the window or sell their souls just to compete with the best. Investors arent allowed here which means we cant compete with the top clubs, we simply dont have the money.

That on the other hand benefits the national team extremely. The young guns get match practice at our top clubs (Werder Bremen, Stuttgart, Schalke and Bayern) and play as regulars. Today, teams like Leverkusen play with 7 germans, we won the league with 6 germans playing in the starting 11. The attitude has changed over the years: "If you cant buy superstars, produce them!"

Another example, in the last 2 years Joachim Löw has called up over 40 player. Most of them are not older than 22! Six years ago we didnt even have a CB replacement! It took the DFB and the clubs long to change things (youth system, creating youth academys, building football pitches for kids etc). Cant see things changing in England unless there will be quotas. which i cant see happening either.

[welshwizard]

Yeah, if you look at their top 2 teams, Barca and real. They have lots of Spanish:

Puyol, Iniesta, Xavi, Bojan, ezquerro, Valdes, Cassillas, Ramos, Guti, Raul, Soldado, Salgado


Yes mate. The problem with your point is that Spain have players playing in the other major leagues at the top clubs in those leagues. england has Beckham playing in the MLS competition. Says it all.

[Paradox]

Yeah, if you look at their top 2 teams, Barca and real. They have lots of Spanish:

Puyol, Iniesta, Xavi, Bojan, ezquerro, Valdes, Cassillas, Ramos, Guti, Raul, Soldado, Salgado

If you apply the 90 minute rule English clubs have, then I wonder how much that number would fall

[Overrated_Fool]

If you apply the 90 minute rule English clubs have, then I wonder how much that number would fall

Good point.

[Kane]

Thanks to its character Bundesliga lets German youngsters to mature and develop their talents. I watch German league as often as I can. Some matches are real classics, but there's more space between top and mid-table teams than in EPL which sometimes effects with dull matches.

[Fowksee]

If you apply the 90 minute rule English clubs have, then I wonder how much that number would fall

Good point, I think Fergie mentioned that in his press conference on Friday.

[Parlour4Ever]

I still don't think the foreign influence is the problem, it's the quality of player and the managerial ability that has England where they are. Now in quality of player we have quality in some areas, and too many above average players in midfield, so the manager plays players out of position - simple solution is to play what we know with players who play in that position.

We always struggle with the left wing (i blame ryan giggs!), but other than that, in a 442 formation we should have at least 2 players per position capable of playing well, against equal or lesser opposition. In midfield its ridiculous how anyone can pair gerrard and lampard togethr anymore - the only time these two should ever be in the same team is if gerrard is covering the right wing.

Play Owen Hargreaves in every match possible as he is England's best player. Probably because he spent so much of his career not oplaying in england.