German Jinx

[jordankhamra]

Just shows you that German teams in general are under performing at every level. There is still hope with Schalke but it is very worriesome for the state of German football. The 1-4 loss against Italy must have taken a lot of confidence out of the Germans!

[Zeman]

Schalke lost yesterday against Palermo too

[derejekissi]

Schalke lost yesterday against Palermo too

Schalke lost the game to Palermo only because of poor psychology following Germany's 1-4 loss to Italy in international game , Bayern's 1-4 loss at the San siro , and Bremen's unlucky defeat at the hands of Juventus.Had Bremen and Bayern won at Juventus and Milan , i am sure Schalke would have followed suit.Whether we believe it or not, psychology plays a constructive or destructive role in any type of game.Thesedays, German teams seem to be psychologically poorer than other teams.This hangover should be avoided in no time.All in all ,German teams must get prepared for Italian teams to exact revenge in years to come.Any team who can oust Italian teams can easily win european competion[UEFA CUP, UEFA CHAMPIONS ].Physical and mental preparation must always be made to eliminate Italian teams.A TEAM WHO CAN DO THIS CAN SURELY WIN ANY COMPETITION.

[jordankhamra]

Schalke lost the game to Palermo only because of poor psychology following Germany's 1-4 loss to Italy in international game , Bayern's 1-4 loss at the San siro , and Bremen's unlucky defeat at the hands of Juventus.Had Bremen and Bayern won at Juventus and Milan , i am sure Schalke would have followed suit.Whether we believe it or not, psychology plays a constructive or destructive role in any type of game.Thesedays, German teams seem to be psychologically poorer than other teams.This hangover should be avoided in no time.All in all ,German teams must get prepared for Italian teams to exact revenge in years to come.Any team who can oust Italian teams can easily win european competion[UEFA CUP, UEFA CHAMPIONS ].Physical and mental preparation must always be made to eliminate Italian teams.A TEAM WHO CAN DO THIS CAN SURELY WIN ANY COMPETITION.

Totally agree. German teams including NT (maybe minis Bayern) go into a game not really expecting to win. It's more like, let the game start, see what happens and if the score is close, they might have a chance. Other top teams go into a game with the intent to win. German teams was want to hang around and hope sonmething good happens. This slump has gone too long and it does not look like it will get better soon.

[Apocalypse]

Totally agree. German teams including NT (maybe minis Bayern) go into a game not really expecting to win. It's more like, let the game start, see what happens and if the score is close, they might have a chance. Other top teams go into a game with the intent to win. German teams was want to hang around and hope sonmething good happens. This slump has gone too long and it does not look like it will get better soon.

do you really believe that bull**** ? come on... thats ridiculous!

[jordankhamra]

do you really believe that bull**** ? come on... thats ridiculous!

I think both club and NT results show that. It is pretty obvious that the mental and pysicall traits of the German teams of the past has long deserted German teams.

[Distant Voices]

Milan only had 3 Italian players and Juve had 4 in the starting line up so I am not sure national character really is important any more at club level.
Italy, Spain and England pay higher salaries that is why Bayern have Makaay and Milan have Schevchenko..

[jordankhamra]

Milan only had 3 Italian players and Juve had 4 in the starting line up so I am not sure national character really is important any more at club level.
Italy, Spain and England pay higher salaries that is why Bayern have Makaay and Milan have Schevchenko..

I do believe that the German player mental state is very damaged. What you discuss is a result of globalization. It seems to me that globalization has benefited everyone but Germany. In the past, German players thought they were the best and believed that winning was their right. Other teams and countries would enter a game against a German team figuring thsat they will lose. Teams in way had already lost the game before kickoff.

All that changed with soccer globalization (players moving to different leagues), other nations got better because some of their players started to get their training in the advanced soccer nations and these players now realize that thery are no different than players from other nations if not better. As a result, other nations gained confidcence since they had talented players, getting advanced training. Other players got much better while German players stayed the same or even got worse now that the mental factor no longer exisited.

I might not be doing a good job explaining myself but it is clear that soccer differences between nations have shrunk. The mental aspect still exists with the likes of Brazil, Aregentina and to a lesser degree England, Italy and France. Most countires expect to lose to those. That is not the case with Germany. Nations small or large, believe that they have a good shot against the German NT or German clubs (minus Bayern maybe). The respect and fear is gone.

[Distant Voices]

Good post Jordan

It depends how you view things

Globalisation can be good to Germany because Spain, Italy and then England will always get the best foreign players and France will always get N African players.
This means that Germany is left to chose from average foreign players so a majority of German players should be better than average foreign players= German players will play more
This can create a good climate for young German players.
Bremen had 8 Germans in the team, Bayern had 4.
Arsenal had 0 English players, Milan had 3 Italians.

I think Germany has the best young players in Europe at the moment-it has to be see if these players will become class players.

The problem now is that we have so few class players 25-30 years old.
Talented players like Ernst, Kehl, Deisler, Lauth, Metzelder, Timm have not got to their potential.If at least 3 of these players were international class, along with Frings, Borowski and Klose who are in the best form of their lives..then Germany would have a great team. There is just a big hole at the moment.

[ACBerb]

It depends how you view things

Globalisation can be good to Germany because Spain, Italy and then England will always get the best foreign players and France will always get N African players.
This means that Germany is left to chose from average foreign players so a majority of German players should be better than average foreign players= German players will play more.

This can be a double edged sword!
If Managers are picking average foreign players to be trendy or because they are marginally better then German players. What I mean is maybe a young "German" talent is benched because of a slightly better import is avalable on the cheap. Maybe this "German" player needs this final big step (being played a full season of BL Fussball) to get the form and confidence to become a great player! But he never gets this final step/chance to develop because of the "Ausländer" taking his spot. The trendy bit I'm referring to is getting an ethnic minority to look P.C. or modern, or perhaps to please a group of foreigners that live in that region of Germany.

[scorpion2a]

Germans are losing now because they gave up their trademark style of playing. I'm a conservative minded person who rather follows traditional methods as long as they bring good results than revolutionary methods. Germany right now need the 1954 spirit to creat another good team out of nothing.

[derejekissi]

Germans are losing now because they gave up their trademark style of playing. I'm a conservative minded person who rather follows traditional methods as long as they bring good results than revolutionary methods. Germany right now need the 1954 spirit to creat another good team out of nothing.

The psychological damage does not only come from the players but largely from the coaches.Italian coaches do not fear any opponent they are drawn with and do not reflect their fears before the match and even encourage their players to go to the pitch to score more goals and wrap up the game there even if they may play away.But, Bundesliga coaches order their players not to concede more goals and predict a draw at the maximum.Meaning, they put players under undue stress eventually leading to heavy defeats.In the past, Germany's opponents were supposed to have already lost the game.Unless Bundesliga teams and Germany regain their pre-match psychological upperhand, the current deterioration may continue unabated and this is my anxiety now.Why don't we maintain our past glory and physical and mental strengh? Why don't we take Germany's women football achievement and their ascendancy as a model.Nowadays, no team in the world even including the USA women's team can dare to defeat Germany's women team.Look at now how many goals German ladies score in a single match at international or domestic level. It is staggering and envious.How many times did Germany's women defeat Italia women at European women's championship and at all levels of competition? The answer is on a number of occasions. I can bet now that the FRAUEN NATIONAL team can score 5-10 goals against ITALIAN WOMEN.Why don't the men team follow in the footsteps of the ladies?

[Apocalypse]

The only problem is that we dont got enough great players between 25 and 30. The most players of our NT are just to young. They need more experience.
In the last 10 years we didn't help young player to elevate their talents. But we recognized the problem and now we promote them.
Just take a look at the statistic of the U21 NT.

The last 15 games:
11 wins
4 draws
1 lost against an a-team
35:10 goals

WC 2006 is just to early, 2008 and 2010 we will have a very strong team. I have no doubt about that.

[jordankhamra]

Good post Jordan

It depends how you view things

Globalisation can be good to Germany because Spain, Italy and then England will always get the best foreign players and France will always get N African players.
This means that Germany is left to chose from average foreign players so a majority of German players should be better than average foreign players= German players will play more
This can create a good climate for young German players.
Bremen had 8 Germans in the team, Bayern had 4.
Arsenal had 0 English players, Milan had 3 Italians.

I think Germany has the best young players in Europe at the moment-it has to be see if these players will become class players.

The problem now is that we have so few class players 25-30 years old.
Talented players like Ernst, Kehl, Deisler, Lauth, Metzelder, Timm have not got to their potential.If at least 3 of these players were international class, along with Frings, Borowski and Klose who are in the best form of their lives..then Germany would have a great team. There is just a big hole at the moment.

It also could have a negative effect. Talent is one thing but training and development is needed to improve. One of the best ways to improve is to play with good players and be part of competitve situations. More German youth are laying in the Bundesliga but the problem is that the Bundesliga is not a strong league. So you got German youth with potential playing against average and below average players which will limit their development. Lack of success in Europe also deprives our youth from needed expierence.

It is true that in other leagues there are less native players but those few players gain so much by playing with better players and being going deep in Euro year after year provides them with great expierence. So if a team has only 3-4 native players but the league has 3-5 of such teams in their league, that provides with a great players for the NT team. Look at England and Italy. Their league is full of forigen players but their NT is stacked with talent.

The mental strenght comes with success and I agree that we have a great pool of talent. Unless they get the needed expierence, our talented youth will not develop properly. Our young talent needs to either find ways to play regulary in other leagues or the Bungesliga needs to become more competitve. I realize that either option is hard due to the chicken and the egg problem.

Maybe our NT 21 will break the cycle as in terms of talent pool, it has been pretty limited since the Euro 92-96 generation.

[Distant Voices]

Italy is not stacked with talent..for example they only have Nesta and Cannavaro as CBs (who have been so for 6 years now) and Materazzi is the reserve who is very average.They still depend on Del Piero for create and they have done little since 1994.since 1938 they have won 1 world cup (and that was in 1982 when foreign players were not allowed in Italy)
England are not that good and again have done very little since 1996.
The goalkeeper place was a big problem in 2004 in that David James was the only English goalkeeper playing in the league-and he is a clown.
Spain have the best league and their NT has done zero since 1960.

I am not saying you are not right -it is just how things are viewed.

[jordankhamra]

Italy is not stacked with talent..for example they only have Nesta and Cannavaro as CBs (who have been so for 6 years now) and Materazzi is the reserve who is very average.They still depend on Del Piero for create and they have done little since 1994.since 1938 they have won 1 world cup (and that was in 1982 when foreign players were not allowed in Italy)
England are not that good and again have done very little since 1996.
The goalkeeper place was a big problem in 2004 in that David James was the only English goalkeeper playing in the league-and he is a clown.
Spain have the best league and their NT has done zero since 1960.

I am not saying you are not right -it is just how things are viewed.

I agree. Italy have been depending upon certain players for several years but that is a good thing. Germany was at it's best when it depended on a core of the same players. Italy does have competition at several positions. Look at their offense. They depend on several older players but they also have several young ones.

England has not done too well but I disagree with most people in this forum that think England is ****. The team is capable of great things as I think this could be the best team England has put forward in generation. That's not to say that they will do well but they have great potential and could go far. I for one don't wish to face them in the 2nd round.

[Timonator]

I agree. Italy have been depending upon certain players for several years but that is a good thing. Germany was at it's best when it depended on a core of the same players. Italy does have competition at several positions. Look at their offense. They depend on several older players but they also have several young ones.

England has not done too well but I disagree with most people in this forum that think England is ****. The team is capable of great things as I think this could be the best team England has put forward in generation. That's not to say that they will do well but they have great potential and could go far. I for one don't wish to face them in the 2nd round.

Yeah, yeah! :drinkbeer Haven't we heard that now every WC/EC since 1966?!? :cool we'll see

[The Southern Dandy]

Jesus Christ. Big ******* deal. In the CL, our teams made it to the last 16. That's pretty damn good.

In the UEFA Cup, they've progressed pretty far and if they don't go any further this season, big deal. It's not the end of the German football. We can't win European titles every season because we need to face the facts. There are a lot of other teams from other European leagues that have just as much talent as our European-competition teams. So what if we don't progress to the finals? Jesus. **** happens. Quit overanalyzing this.

[Timonator]

Hahahah Dandy :laugh I drink on that! :drinkbeerThough i think it sums it up pretty much. We should be more relaxed about the situation. Someday we'll win the CL again :nod :D or reach a final.

[The Southern Dandy]

Football goest through cycles anyways. It wasn't that long ago that Leverkusen reached a final. Remember? Thing will improve and swing back to our favour soon enough. I'd be more worried about creating a competetive domestic league rather than searching for European titles. We have problems on the home front that need to be solved instead of wasting energy lamenting about how our teams didn't progress to any finals. Bayern went out against a quality team, arguably the one of the top 3 teams in the world.